Avengers/New Avengers: Time Runs Out (with spoilers)

[Mahes]

I just bought this and the new issue of Avengers.

Should I read NA or Avengers first this week? Or does it matter?

Read NA prior to reading Avengers.

[graffiX]

Read NA prior to reading Avengers.

Great, thanks!

[Biclopcicle]

I just bought this and the new issue of Avengers.

Should I read NA or Avengers first this week? Or does it matter?

Brevoort and Hickman said read NA 33 first. But I'm reading 44 right now and I don't think it really matters.

[Hariel0079]

Avengers and NA was crazy and the fall out for SW is going to be gruesome. It also answered some setups for upcoming fall titles. (UIH)

[Ken Ashcroft]

Yeah but they could have more time to build a bigger ship. Or found a way to survive the white space. I dunno. The point is mainly that Cap decided to be disruptive instead of helpful. That matters more from an ethical perspective than the final outcome.

Obviously we are arguing about a plot device that is arbitrarily established by the author. His story, his rules. Rogers has just rubbed me the wrong way ever since he broke the Infinity Gauntlet.

True. Maybe it was because his character was shown to have aged so much but he just seemed so bitter and obsessed. The way he reacted to those holo-images of the Beast and the Hulk. The way that he insisted that none of the illuminati weren't to be called by their code names and telling Captain Marvel not to report to him about anything unless she mentions Richards and the other even if there was nothing new to report about them. It seem totally out of character.

As for wasting the 8 months looking for the Illuminati, it was notably that when Hawkeye asked T'challa just why they hadn't come up with a definitive plan to deal with the inclusion after all that time and T'challa said that they were too busy running from their friends and Hawkeye admits that they were maybe wrong after all to do that, that there was no response from Rogers.

[Ken Ashcroft]

Both Avengers books are out today?

[Biclopcicle]

yep. Go for it. So ready for SW#1. very few questions remain

[Hariel0079]

True. Maybe it was because his character was shown to have aged so much but he just seemed so bitter and obsessed. The way he reacted to those holo-images of the Beast and the Hulk. The way that he insisted that none of the illuminati weren't to be called by their code names and telling Captain Marvel not to report to him about anything unless she mentions Richards and the other even if there was nothing new to report about them. It seem totally out of character.

As for wasting the 8 months looking for the Illuminati, it was notably that when Hawkeye asked T'challa just why they hadn't come up with a definitive plan to deal with the inclusion after all that time and T'challa said that they were too busy running from their friends and Hawkeye admits that they were maybe wrong after all to do that, that there was no response from Rogers.

Tony was lying to begin with so everything is irrelevant. With NA reveal today, no matter what the illuminati was going to fail. It get's worse. I have SW#1 not going to spoil but Damn these 2 avenger issues today answered a lot and SW#1 gives even more!

[Captain M]

Tony was lying to begin with so everything is irrelevant. With NA reveal today, no matter what the illuminati was going to fail. It get's worse. I have SW#1 not going to spoil but Damn these 2 avenger issues today answered a lot and SW#1 gives even more!

You have SW #1? Cool!

[KOSLOX]

"Black Panther, is there anything you can do to help?"

[Hariel0079]

You have SW #1? Cool!

Not going to say or PM anything to anyone! It releases Next Week! believe me with today's issue of Avengers and reading SW#1... spoiling will take away major moments.

[Biclopcicle]

Tony was lying to begin with so everything is irrelevant. With NA reveal today, no matter what the illuminati was going to fail. It get's worse. I have SW#1 not going to spoil but Damn these 2 avenger issues today answered a lot and SW#1 gives even more!

See I thought we knew well before this issue that Tony made the Avengers machine to cover up the Illuminati's actions. Maybe the only reveal is that Tony never really had any hope in solving the incursion problem while everyone else did.

BTW Hawkeye definitely did not admit they might have been wrong for chasing the Illuminati- he had some sarcastic smartass comment for TChalla "yeah, were all really broken up about that." Something like that

Damn, that's awesome you already have SW#1. At least they did us a favor and are putting A44/NA33, SW1/2 out in consecutive weeks

[Hariel0079]

See I thought we knew well before this issue that Tony made the Avengers machine to cover up the Illuminati's actions. Maybe the only reveal is that Tony never really had any hope in solving the incursion problem while everyone else did.

BTW Hawkeye definitely did not admit they might have been wrong for chasing the Illuminati- he had some sarcastic smartass comment for TChalla "yeah, were all really broken up about that." Something like that

Wait til SW#1. Your right on the "Tony making the avengers machine early on to cover" reveal. I think it was in one of the Avenger OS tie-ins if not a little earlier in possibly in the NA issues with the Hulk joining.

I don't believe they were wrong for chasing them, I think everyone's impression of the Illuminati has been wrapped based on the idea of "they have a plan"

[rukkis]

The reason why Steve is so pissed is because he knew that Tony knew there was no chance of solving this, but he still went ahead with the Avengers Machine and the mind wipe anyways. Tony's argument that he was doing what was necessary to save the universe doesn't hold much water if even he doesn't believe it. From Steve's perspective it definitely comes across as a personal attack with no real justification. Not only that, Steve knows that Tony is smart enough that he is probably right and there is no solving this. At that point why not make hunting down Tony your primary focus. I didn't think it was possible, but this last issue actually made me understand his point of view over the last few arcs. Not that I agree with it, but definitely more logical than it seemed.

[XPac]

The reason why Steve is so pissed is because he knew that Tony knew there was no chance of solving this, but he still went ahead with the Avengers Machine and the mind wipe anyways. Tony's argument that he was doing what was necessary to save the universe doesn't hold much water if even he doesn't believe it. From Steve's perspective it definitely comes across as a personal attack with no real justification. Not only that, Steve knows that Tony is smart enough that he is probably right and there is no solving this. At that point why not make hunting down Tony your primary focus. I didn't think it was possible, but this last issue actually made me understand his point of view over the last few arcs. Not that I agree with it, but definitely more logical than it seemed.

If Tony is still inverted from Axis (and I don't know if that was ever undone or not since I don't read Iron Man), then I think the fact that Tony plotted to murder Steve in Axis might also play a bit of a role in Steve giving Stark such a hard time. Hickman does seem to be largely ignoring all that but still... if you're dealing with an interveted guy that just tried to kill you pretty recently, there's gonna be some issues there.