Avengers/New Avengers: Time Runs Out (with spoilers)

[XPac]

The Wakandan Kings of old? In modern times that's BS, Wakanda has aided the rest of the world many times.





Which is why I've said it was bad.

I think even T'Challa's dad was on board with the "Wakanda first screw everyone else" mentality.

But certainly T'Challa himself was different. That's the thing that seperates him from the rest... he wasn't just a king. He was a super hero. And in the end, for better or for worse when push came to shove he acted like the former rather than the later.

Still, I do think that sort of mentality makes sense. Not to the degree of the universe burning per say... but doing what it takes to protect your people. Not saying I necessarily agree, but I understand it. It makes sense. If the rest of the world needs to sacrifice Wakanda to protect itself, they will. It's not nice, but if that's what they need to do then they're going to do it.

Course, that applies to the non super hero world, who realistically wouldn't be able to do jack against Thanos even if they tried. I would still assume super heroes (the Illuminati at least) would have tried to stop Thanos unless they were unable to for whatever reason.

[KOSLOX]

I think even T'Challa's dad was on board with the "Wakanda first screw everyone else" mentality.

But certainly T'Challa himself was different. That's the thing that seperates him from the rest... he wasn't just a king. He was a super hero. And in the end, for better or for worse when push came to shove he acted like the former rather than the later.

Still, I do think that sort of mentality makes sense. Not to the degree of the universe burning per say... but doing what it takes to protect your people. Not saying I necessarily agree, but I understand it. It makes sense. If the rest of the world needs to sacrifice Wakanda to protect itself, they will. It's not nice, but if that's what they need to do then they're going to do it.

Course, that applies to the non super hero world, who realistically wouldn't be able to do jack against Thanos even if they tried. I would still assume super heroes (the Illuminati at least) would have tried to stop Thanos unless they were unable to for whatever reason.

They've got Steve's marauders chasing them all over the place. Remember what Franklin said. Part of the reason the Illuminati fails is because of Steve.

[Mahes]

They've got Steve's marauders chasing them all over the place. Remember what Franklin said. Part of the reason the Illuminati fails is because of Steve.

Exactly. Cap carrying out his grudge and being petty means they fail. Instead of deciding to go after them until they solve the crisis. Of course there is the whole working together didn't fix anything either.

[Vic Vega]

I disagree, I think Al Ewing is writing the most Avenger-y title since Bendis. Maybe not in the amount of references, but in tone and structure.

Yes, but it's the references that should matter more to the "if you weren't an Avenger in 1995 get out of the book now" crowd.

[XPac]

They've got Steve's marauders chasing them all over the place. Remember what Franklin said. Part of the reason the Illuminati fails is because of Steve.

If Steve's forces are chasing them, then head over to Wakanda while Thanos is destroying it. Two birds one stone.

[KOSLOX]

If Steve's forces are chasing them, then head over to Wakanda while Thanos is destroying it. Two birds one stone.

If Steve would rather chase around his former friends than stop a genocide I hope he never becomes Captain America again.

[XPac]

Exactly. Cap carrying out his grudge and being petty means they fail. Instead of deciding to go after them until they solve the crisis. Of course there is the whole working together didn't fix anything either.

I guess the moral of the story here is that the Illuminati fail no matter what.

But Dooms on the case, so things are looking up. I wonder if the conflict with the Illuminati might actually create some sort of opening that Doom wouldn't have had otherwise. Doom didn't save the world in the timeline where they all worked together. For all I know he might not here either... but something needs to be different for things to work out better this time. And that different thing is the choice Steve made.

[XPac]

If Steve would rather chase around his former friends than stop a genocide I hope he never becomes Captain America again.

Steve being Cap again is about as inevitable as the sun rising in the east.

But that aside, my whole point is that the heroes likely wouldn't just sit back and do nothing. I think they either tried and failed or for whatever reason couldn't. Maybe it just happened too fast... either way, I don't buy that absolutely no one cared about stopping Thanos. Even if none of them gave a dam about Wakanda they should still be worried about him. So to me at least there's more to this.

[Vic Vega]

Exactly. Cap carrying out his grudge and being petty means they fail. Instead of deciding to go after them until they solve the crisis. Of course there is the whole working together didn't fix anything either.

Steve has real reason to be pissed.

Consider that the current sturcture of the Avengers was created by Tony to keep Steve occupied while the Illuminati did whatever.

When confronted about it, Tony basically told Steve, "And...so what?"

Tony Stark has been playing Steve for a literal fool since Avengers #1.
And Civil War wasn't THAT long ago.

And this is all on top of whatever d-baggery Tony does as a result of Axis.

Steve has decided that Tony needs his ass kicked.

[Trident]

Of course, it was the Wakandan kings who argued that they would let the rest of the universe burn to protect their nation. I think this sort of mentality is a running theme in Hickman's book. When we start off blowing up planets to save our own, this is sort of the road we're heading down.

Bingo!

You can't expect help when you are so hesitant to give it.

[Mahes]

Steve being Cap again is about as inevitable as the sun rising in the east.

But that aside, my whole point is that the heroes likely wouldn't just sit back and do nothing. I think they either tried and failed or for whatever reason couldn't. Maybe it just happened too fast... either way, I don't buy that absolutely no one cared about stopping Thanos. Even if none of them gave a dam about Wakanda they should still be worried about him. So to me at least there's more to this.

Yes something has to be different otherwise everything is for naught. But yeah the real moral is the Illuminati will always fail in part due to their hubris. But like in FF under Hickman...Doom will be the key to victory. I think his actions did not happen prior to that.

Steve has real reason to be pissed.

Consider that the current sturcture of the Avengers was created by Tony to keep Steve occupied while the Illuminati did whatever.

When confronted about it, Tony basically told Steve, "And...so what?"

Tony Stark has been playing Steve for a literal fool since Avengers #1.
And Civil War wasn't THAT long ago.

And this is all on top of whatever d-baggery Tony does as a result of Axis.

Steve has decided that Tony needs his ass kicked.

Sure, Steve has legitimate basis for the feud. Won't deny that. However, what's more important in a situation that involves the destruction of everything in the mutliverse?

[JaggedFel]

Bingo!

You can't expect help when you are so hesitant to give it.

I am sorry what nation does not put themselves first. That tends to be the point unless u have an extremely corrupt government that would prefer to line their pockets with bribes.

[XPac]

A Namor fan justifying genocide well colored me surprised.

I am sorry what nation does not put themselves first. That tends to be the point unless u have an extremely corrupt government that would prefer to line their pockets with bribes.

A nation putting themselves first is one possible explanation as to why no one helped Wakanda. They sacrificed one country protect the rest of the world. Not entirely sure if that's how it played out... but in Hickman books that does tend to be the mentality of "rulers" in the MU. It's not just Wakandan or Atlantean kings who might consider the safety of their own nation (or world) ahead of others.

[Mahes]

I am sorry what nation does not put themselves first. That tends to be the point unless u have an extremely corrupt government that would prefer to line their pockets with bribes.

On a serious note, the world embraced this sort of philosophy shown in the panel. Wakanda burned for them to survive.

[XPac]

The truth is that both Wakada and Atlantis got their behinds kicked under Hickman, and both to a degree kind of were asking for it. I won't go so far as to say Altantis or Wakanda deserved it... but really this was CLEARLY where this road was headed. There were no winners in their conflict... just losers.