Avengers/New Avengers: Time Runs Out (with spoilers)

[Dboi654]

That probably explains this cover for NA 29

That's an avengers cover
The next new avengers cover features the beyonder and yellowjacket

[XPac]

Raises the question. Has Namor finally reached his limit or is this about something else? Also, where was Pod and Validator? They weren't in the fight.

Really, there's no need for Namor to continue working with the Cabal if you think about it. They seem capable of stopping the incursions without him.

Might as well work with the heroes to figure out a way to stop the larger problem (and the Cabal down the line while they're at it).

[Moose100]

That's an avengers cover
The next new avengers cover features the beyonder and yellowjacket

OopS!! Thanks! It's still the next part in this soft crossover but thanks!

[vitruvian]

I think at this point it's a grudge match with Steve.

Sure, seems that way... but even if you don't agree that that's OOC for him, that still leaves the question of why everybody on his side is going along with it.

I mean, take Maria Hill. I'm having a hard time buying little Ms. Ends Justifies the Means, Runs the Secret Avengers and Routinely Wipes Their Memories, Runs a Shady Agency Tasked With Protecting the World and Perfectly Willing to Use Immoral Means, is going to prioritize fighting Steve Rogers' grudge match over recruiting every asset possible, including the Illuminati, to the cause of getting to a state where the world is protected from the Incursions on a long-term basis by someone other than Thanos and his cronies.

[PlanetaryDevastation]

Really, there's no need for Namor to continue working with the Cabal if you think about it. They seem capable of stopping the incursions without him.

Might as well work with the heroes to figure out a way to stop the larger problem (and the Cabal down the line while they're at it).

Yeah but last time we saw him he was trying to get Doom help to manage the Cabal because he could no longer deal with the things they were doing and they could smell blood in the water and was ready to turn against him.

Sure, seems that way... but even if you don't agree that that's OOC for him, that still leaves the question of why everybody on his side is going along with it.

I mean, take Maria Hill. I'm having a hard time buying little Ms. Ends Justifies the Means, Runs the Secret Avengers and Routinely Wipes Their Memories, Runs a Shady Agency Tasked With Protecting the World and Perfectly Willing to Use Immoral Means, is going to prioritize fighting Steve Rogers' grudge match over recruiting every asset possible, including the Illuminati, to the cause of getting to a state where the world is protected from the Incursions on a long-term basis by someone other than Thanos and his cronies.

I rather partial to a mind control excuse at this point.

[Mark]

Sure, seems that way... but even if you don't agree that that's OOC for him, that still leaves the question of why everybody on his side is going along with it.

I mean, take Maria Hill. I'm having a hard time buying little Ms. Ends Justifies the Means, Runs the Secret Avengers and Routinely Wipes Their Memories, Runs a Shady Agency Tasked With Protecting the World and Perfectly Willing to Use Immoral Means, is going to prioritize fighting Steve Rogers' grudge match over recruiting every asset possible, including the Illuminati, to the cause of getting to a state where the world is protected from the Incursions on a long-term basis by someone other than Thanos and his cronies.

This is a marvel event, if it takes out of character writing to keep the story going or have it go where they want it to go then we are going to get out of character writing.

[Moose100]

Sure, seems that way... but even if you don't agree that that's OOC for him, that still leaves the question of why everybody on his side is going along with it.

I mean, take Maria Hill. I'm having a hard time buying little Ms. Ends Justifies the Means, Runs the Secret Avengers and Routinely Wipes Their Memories, Runs a Shady Agency Tasked With Protecting the World and Perfectly Willing to Use Immoral Means, is going to prioritize fighting Steve Rogers' grudge match over recruiting every asset possible, including the Illuminati, to the cause of getting to a state where the world is protected from the Incursions on a long-term basis by someone other than Thanos and his cronies.

I do agree with that to an extent. Of course it depends on what he did or what he wanted to do with the Illuminati once they were captured.

[vitruvian]

I won't say villainous, but it's certainly questionable. And like I said, I think that's sort of the point. Had Steve not gone this route he would have walked out of the story smelling like roses in contrast to the Illuminati. This balances it out a bit to where you can say all parties were wrong.

It's out of character certainly, and it's possible there's more to Steve side of things than we're seeing.

If SHIELD and Steve's side really haven't done any more about the Incursions and Cabal than we've seen, then it's really out of character, not just for Steve but for many of the characters following his lead.

If they do have something going on behind the scenes designed to take care of the Incursions and the Cabal blowing up other worlds... then it's still out of character, to my mind. If they've got a solution, it would make more sense to let the Illuminati know they do than to keep it secret; after all, a lot of the Illuminati's motivation for continuing to run, hide, and fight is not simply to preserve themselves and their freedom for its own sake, but rather to continue being able to work on the Incursion problem. Let them know that's taken care of, and they might even turn themselves in; even if not, the likely don't fight as hard. And besides, letting them think the universe is still under threat and their friends have gone crazy to the extent of not caring about it is just cruel, isn't it? Not to mention, if Steve has a secret plan, he needs to let everybody on his side in on it, who otherwise would prioritize saving the world over helping him in his grudge match.

[XPac]

Yeah but last time we saw him he was trying to get Doom help to manage the Cabal because he could no longer deal with the things they were doing and they could smell blood in the water and was ready to turn against him.



I rather partial to a mind control excuse at this point.

If the Cabal is ready to turn on Namor, then it's all the more reason to stop working with them and work with the heroes instead.

[vitruvian]

I can't see Adam going along with any of this. I can only think that he is still finding out what is going on.

At this point the whole world knows about the Incursions, though. There's no way Adam doesn't.

[vitruvian]

I rather partial to a mind control excuse at this point.

If Steve Rogers is using mind control on his side, that would make him worse in all ways than the Illuminati.

[PlanetaryDevastation]

If the Cabal is ready to turn on Namor, then it's all the more reason to stop working with them and work with the heroes instead.

But that assuming that everybody is okay with allowing the world destruction to continue. Which apparently they are because no one has confronted the Cabal except for Black Panther for unknown reasons. I swear I wish we could have seen played out in real time rather than use a time jump.

[PlanetaryDevastation]

If Steve Rogers is using mind control on his side, that would make him worse in all ways than the Illuminati.

No I meant S.H.I.E.L.D has been mind controlled.

[Moose100]

Man Mike Perkins would of been a seamless replacement for Epting.

[XPac]

But that assuming that everybody is okay with allowing the world destruction to continue. Which apparently they are because no one has confronted the Cabal except for Black Panther for unknown reasons. I swear I wish we could have seen played out in real time rather than use a time jump.

Stark gave it the old college try too.

But really I think the smarter move is to allow the Cabal to do what they're doing so they have time to figure out how to actually solve the bigger problem. When they actually have something that works, they can go after the Cabal. But until that point, it's not necessarily a good idea unless you're willing to detonate the bombs yourself OR you're willing to just let the universe end.