Avengers/New Avengers: Time Runs Out (with spoilers)

[Emma's Midriff]

I'm not the one who floated this really odd idea, imo, that because Black Panther has a movie, Namor has to die to spotlight Black Panther, so ask them.

The way Namor always does, by being awesome and entertaining. By his country and himself being a punching bag or whipping boy for T'challa and Wakanda. If he wasn't in this story, providing conflict, T'challa would be beyond dull and redundant.




Most the people agitating for Namor's death disagree with this. Apparently, from what I've read here, if he doesn't kill Namor, it somehow diminishes the character.

That's the predominant mindset. BP has to kill Namor or Hickman is "chumping" him.

I don't get it.

[Moose100]

Let's not have this merry-go-round argument again.

Ultimately, the destruction of Wakanda was because that's where T'challa decided to put the Cabal.

I see what you did there..

[Reviresco]

Let's not have this merry-go-round argument again.

Ultimately, the destruction of Wakanda was because that's where T'challa decided to put the Cabal.

I agree on both counts.

[Moose100]

Hopefully Universal will work out the bugs with Namor so that he can get a movie by the turn of the decade

[Emma's Midriff]

I see what you did there..

What did I do? We've had the "Was Namor wrong to send Thanos to Wakanda during Infinity" argument ten million times. Ultimately, it didn't really mean anything.

Wakanda was fine after Infinity. It's not fine during Time Runs Out.

[Moose100]

Whose idea was it to stockpile WMD's and dangerous extra-terrestrials within Wakandas borders without bothering to tell the actual ruler of the country?

I get that. It seems that his bigger mistake is not gutting Namor which led to him ultimately selling throwing Wakanda under the bus.

It feels like everybody will fall real hard in this. What else but a reset could restore everything?

[Reviresco]

Namor looked like he was ready to cry when Doom and especially Kristoff was straight up clowning him. Again, to me...Just by reading Hickman books and his style. Everything points to some form of retribution. In pretty much all of his works that have it...like East of West (Xiaolin, Death and the hunting of the chosen) or Secret Warriors(The Gorgon killing a god and the betrayal)..when a character says they are going to kill someone...it has happened. Might be different here, but there is no reason to disbelieve this is different. It might not be death, but it should be some form of revenge. He has not gotten any.

Obviously, we disagree on the interpretation of this story and what it calls for. I don't think this is a story about retribution and revenge. If anything, it shows how futile that path is. And it's clear to me, that the whole business about T'challa saying he's going to kill Namor, isn't a promise of revenge, but ties into his conflict with his ancestors, who want him to kill Namor in revenge. Only to show what a bad decision that would have been.

[Moose100]

When are the next issues out soon right?

[Reviresco]

I get that. It seems that his bigger mistake is not gutting Namor which led to him ultimately selling throwing Wakanda under the bus.

It feels like everybody will fall real hard in this. What else but a reset could restore everything?

Not that I think Black Panther could kill Namor, but had that been done, than the story would have been over when the Illuminati failed to press the button, and literally, everything died.

I'll be disappointed if this story ends with a reset, but it is looking that way.

[Victor Freeman]

Hopefully Universal will work out the bugs with Namor so that he can get a movie by the turn of the decade

lol. Yesterday must have been tough. :shrugs: I joke, I joke.

[Moose100]

Not that I think Black Panther could kill Namor, but had that been done, than the story would have been over when the Illuminati failed to press the button, and literally, everything died.

I'll be disappointed if this story ends with a reset, but it is looking that way.

That's why the story is compelling. Especially now.

Will we see what happens in the intervening time before the jump in story?

[Emma's Midriff]

lol. Yesterday must have been tough. :shrugs: I joke, I joke.

No, yesterday was pretty good actually. Why do you think it must have been tough?

[XPac]

I get that. It seems that his bigger mistake is not gutting Namor which led to him ultimately selling throwing Wakanda under the bus.

It feels like everybody will fall real hard in this. What else but a reset could restore everything?

Course, had T'Challa gutted Namor Wakanda and the rest of the universe would probably be destroyed.

T'Challa was in fact right... there was a need for Namor.

[XPac]

Obviously, we disagree on the interpretation of this story and what it calls for. I don't think this is a story about retribution and revenge. If anything, it shows how futile that path is. And it's clear to me, that the whole business about T'challa saying he's going to kill Namor, isn't a promise of revenge, but ties into his conflict with his ancestors, who want him to kill Namor in revenge. Only to show what a bad decision that would have been.

That was the fork in the road that Shuri was in when she had to decide whether or not to accept the peace proposal with Atlantis, or whether or not to go to war. She chose retribution... and understandaby choice given the situation. But a choice which ultimately led to both nations destroying each other.

You can argue Steve is fixated a bit too much on retribution over what the Illuminati did to him, and that's not necessarily doing him or anyone else any favors either.

Retribution just hasn't done anyone any favors in this story so far.

[Moose100]

Course, had T'Challa gutted Namor Wakanda and the rest of the universe would probably be destroyed.

T'Challa was in fact right... there was a need for Namor.

Yeah if only we could see their feud on the big screen...

T'challa has got that wisdom. You can almost say his discretion saved them as well.