Pre-52 as one of the Earths of the Multiverse

[Black Angel]

And why not?
How would that ruin comics?

come on bro the exact same new earth with all the multiverse shattering stories it had wouldn't make any sense.

I didn't say it would ruin comics seems you think it may if you ask that. I just don't think it is out there nor should it be.

[Thor-Ul]

I don't think the JL 3000 earth necessarily has to be based off a pre-52 continuity with ANY particular 'cut-off' point. It can simply be a brand new world which aesthetically, and in broad strokes, resembles a pre-52 continuity, with familiar characters and concepts and maybe a few events.

Kinda like how the world of All-Star Superman supposedly featured the Silver Age Superman...that world wasn't the Pre-COIE Earth 1, but it resembled Pre-COIE Earth 1 very strongly when it came to the Superman mythos.

Or, for that matter, the new Earth 2 and Earth 3, which feature familiar characters and concepts to their namesakes but are completely different animals. (A better comparision would be the Post-IC Earth 2 which closely resembled the original Earth 2 and was yet a different continuity).

All we know about this world so far is that Blue Beetle and Booster Gold existed and were part of the JLI under Max Lord. ANYTHING else is up for grabs. So Barry may or may not have died. Hal may or may not have gone crazy and Kyle may or may not have become GL. Superman could have either the Byrne origin, or Birthright, or some totally different origin...and he may or may not have been killed by Doomsday. It goes on and on!

I can buy this.

[Jon Clark]

That's using linear logic, which the Marv Wolfman logic rules out in its paradigm. It's not that Earth-Two stopped existing in 1986. It's that the Crisis caused Earth-Two never to have existed in any time.

It makes sense to me that according to Einsteinian physics the universe could expand until it meets its limit at which point time and space would contract in on itself until the universe returned to the state prior to the big bang, after which presumably there would be another big bang. That's a kind of linear process--even though time is discrete in each universe created.

But Marv Wolfman is saying completely something else. That everything can go out of existence enitrely and this is retroactive to the point of creation and even before it. So instead of several (near infinite) numbers of universes being created there is only one. Where did all that other energy and mass go? Just poof, completely gone and never was. Even with the 52 you have the same sort of thing--with different orders of magnitude.

I can buy that the same mass and energy gets translated into different universes, but that isn't what DC writers are saying. They are saying that one thing never existed in any way shape or form, but something else exists and there's only 52 to go around. By my math there should at least be 104.

Every universe is an alternate version of another universe. So what stops the previous existing alternate universes from being counted as alternate universes of the universes that now exist? And since time is discrete to each universe, not shared among all of them: each universe exists--not in the past, present, future of another universe--but outside of that time all together. That's why we say they are parallel. It's not a serial multiverse. Each universe exists independent from every other universe.

I came across something in a role-playing game once.

1) Imagine you are in the DCU where physics allows for you to travel between parallel universes.
2) One of those universes differs in that physics there are different such that there is no possibility of travelling to other universes.
3) You travel from your universe to that other universe.
4) Can you get home?

And from the Crisis viewpoint- I looked at it as there being a point in time where Earth-Two existing was like Schrödinger's Cat simultaneously both possible and impossible. Pre-Crisis stems from it being possible, Post-Crisis stems from it not being possible. The Pre-Crisis characters (and we readers) present at that point in time simply moved from the track where Earth-Two became possible to the one where it didn't. We became locked in a place where from our perspective it never existed because we couldn't produce any evidence of it within the Post-Crisis time track.

[Chris24601]

The only thing I heard out of all of this is that there's a chance that a Pre-Infinite Crisis version of the Teen Titans/YJ4 that doesn't completely suck is out there somewhere in the multiverse. If this is so WHY in the name of all that is good and holy are we being subjected to the New52 versions?

[Baron Samedi]

Right now DC is putting out some of their best product in a while

I actually laughed out loud at that one.

You're a comedy genius dude.

[Jphu8414]

Yeah if we could just stop thinking about Pre-52 so much and just look forward to the future. That would be great.

[Master X]

But what if you can see that future and it's not the future you want? I have seen some patterns from listening in on what's currently going on, and certainly next year some big changes are coming to the DCNU, but nothing to do with a reboot/pre-52 fusion, despite us getting a taste of previous universes during the DCNU's 2 off-months next year.

[andersonh1]

Yeah if we could just stop thinking about Pre-52 so much and just look forward to the future. That would be great.

Because when I compare the post-Crisis DC to the new 52 DC, the future looks bleak. The past looks much better by comparison.

[HsssH]

Because when I compare the post-Crisis DC to the new 52 DC, the future looks bleak. The past looks much better by comparison.

Yeah, I hope that Superboy Prime returns at some point and starts ripping arms off and punching continuities again.

[Sacred Knight]

Because when I compare the post-Crisis DC to the new 52 DC, the future looks bleak. The past looks much better by comparison.

Maybe if we're comparing the New 52 just to the 80s era of the post-Crisis verse. Otherwise not really. Compared to the 90s the New 52 rates just about the same in terms of lightness and darkness. Compared to the 2000's, post-Crisis was far darker.

[Anjohl]

That doesn't work, since pre-52 still counts for several heroes, Batman in particular. In Court of the Owls, Batman is still the battle hardened veteran, his canon is intact.

[Buried Alien]

That doesn't work, since pre-52 still counts for several heroes, Batman in particular. In Court of the Owls, Batman is still the battle hardened veteran, his canon is intact.

In the broadest terms, yes, but when you look closely at the details, those almost *certainly* need to be different.

In the broadest terms, the New 52 is still the DC Universe, but its details different quite significantly from those of the previous DC Universe.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Captain Britain of Earth 20]

I really hope after reading Booster Gold that we discover that there's a pre 52 earth out there & a Earth that is the direct opposite of the new 52 that's more Wildstorm with only JSA & Titans characters which would be a different pace.

[Sacred Knight]

Get Doomed #2. Even if you avoided the storyline altogether. Even if you don't read Superman. You'll thank me later.

[Anjohl]

Get Doomed #2. Even if you avoided the storyline altogether. Even if you don't read Superman. You'll thank me later.

Why do you say that? Is it worth a read?