View Poll Results: How will Brian Braddock be affected by Scottish independence?

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  • He will be better than ever!

    1 5.88%
  • He will retain his usual effectiveness. (Please explain what this means to you.)

    10 58.82%
  • He's done. Send in the new Captain Britain already.

    0 0%
  • Who cares about this guy? (No one.) Give me Captain Scotland!

    4 23.53%
  • I don't like or know anything about comics.

    2 11.76%
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  1. #1
    "Comics journalism"? Filthy Mutie's Avatar
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    Unhappy How will Scottish independence affect Captain Britain?

    I'm pretty concerned about the welfare of Brian Braddock, AKA: Captain Britain.

    You've probably heard that today (18 September, 2014) the people of Scotland are voting on whether they'll become an independent nation, or remain part of the United Kingdom, AKA: Great Britain. Regardless of our personal feelings on the matter, I think we can all agree it's certainly been 307 years.

    Marvel Comics has always prided itself as being rooted in the real world, and references the real world's current events. (See: 'F-Itself', 'Civil War', and... 'God Loves, Man Kills'.) If Scotland claims its independence, how will Captain Britain be affected?




    Not a great look.


    Will Captain Britain lose power via the reduction of political jurisdiction?

    Will he lose confidence in himself, since a nation voted themselves away from him and the British laws he was assigned to uphold?

    If so, will Captain Britain fall into despair and succumb to his inner-demons (alcoholism)?

    If so, will the mantle of Captain Britain be given to a more worthy British national?

    If so, will the new Captain Britain be female again?

    Either way, will we see the rise of a Captain Scotland?

    And, will Captain Scotland pick up Captain Britain's slack if Captain Britain starts spiraling downward?


    DISCUSS!

    Last edited by Filthy Mutie; 09-18-2014 at 12:28 AM. Reason: Added a poll.

  2. #2

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    You forgetting about Union Jack bro

  3. #3
    File Clerk of MI13 The Sword is Drawn's Avatar
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    Well, I gues as this boards resident Captain Britain fanatic I can't help but bite on this one...

    First off he won't stop being Captain Britain.

    That's a given.

    Nor will he stop protecting Scotland if required, any more than he would refuse to step in if the Republic of Ireland needed aid.

    But it has long since been established that it's the territory which Britain resides in geographically which is important here, not political boundaries.

    There is a British Isles in every universe within Marvel's multiverse, but who governs it, what its called etc is sometomes different.

    For example in one universe shown the Captain Britain was Captain Cymru (Wales in Welsh) because in that universe the British isles were governed by Wales.

    In another the Captain was Caledonia, a female Scottish captain. Because in that universe Scotland was the governing nation.

    And of course there was even a Hauptman England, from a universe were Germany won World War 2 and the British isles were Nazi ruled, governed from Berlin.

    The point is that it's the people of the geographical territory which matters, and not the political boundaries.

    We also don't know if the Scotland of the Marvel Universe is even having a referendum...?
    It Came From Darkmoor...

    A Blog dedicated to the British corner of the Marvel Universe.


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  4. #4
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    If it were an option I would vote it makes no difference to me.
    Last edited by The Watcher; 09-18-2014 at 12:06 PM. Reason: Omitted Irrelevant Covert Dig At Another Poster

  5. #5
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sword is Drawn View Post
    But it has long since been established that it's the territory which Britain resides in geographically which is important here, not political boundaries.
    This is my thinking also. "Britain" denotes the land mass of England, Scotland and Wales, "Great Britain" is the land mass of Britain + Ireland. If Scotland leave, they will still be British (the same way the Irish are still British); they just won't be part of the UK.
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 09-18-2014 at 01:09 AM.

  6. #6
    File Clerk of MI13 The Sword is Drawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    This is my thinking also. "Britain" denotes the land mass of England, Scotland and Wales, "Great Britain" is the land mass of Britain + Ireland. If Scotland leave, they will still be British (the same way the Irish are still British); they just won't be part of the UK.

    I'm not sure that Scotland in general will see it that way if they vote to leave. But these ARE just political boundaries. It does not change the people. We don't suddenly become radically different because of where a border gets drawn.
    It Came From Darkmoor...

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  7. #7
    Lick on, sweet prince. Sea Hound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    This is my thinking also. "Britain" denotes the land mass of England, Scotland and Wales, "Great Britain" is the land mass of Britain + Ireland. If Scotland leave, they will still be British (the same way the Irish are still British); they just won't be part of the UK.
    As a passport carrying Irish woman, I have to correct you here KF. There's a lot of confusion about this, but Irish citizens are definitely not British. Most people in Northern Ireland would describe themselves as British, but not all; and I'd never call one British without knowing their politics first. Funnily enough if you're born in the North, despite being a British citizen, you're also entitled to be an Irish one.

    You're right about the British Isles including the whole island of Ireland. I admit it's all fairly illogical but that's politics in Ireland.

    I don't know if an independent Scotland would still consider themselves part of Britain? They may still have to nut it out.

    I have a feeling Captain Britain's remit sort of includes Ireland. (I think I saw it on a map once). Like his boundaries are more mystical than political.

    Would he have to change his uniform to remove the blue bit of the flag? And out of interest, does the British flag have to change if the Scots vote yes?

    Weirdly enough, here in Australia where I live the head of state is constitutionally the monarch of the UK, so if the Scots vote yes, then they also remove Elizabeth as Australian head of State, and give us a problem. Speaking of unintended consequences.
    "Self has no time for this."

  8. #8
    Bishop was right. Sighphi's Avatar
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    He will loose a third of his power and become Captain England.
    Then a new hero with rise in the north..... CAPTAIN SCOTLAND!

    Get on this, Marvel! Create a new character.

  9. #9
    File Clerk of MI13 The Sword is Drawn's Avatar
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    I actually doubt he would lose that power.

    Like I say the politcal boundaries don't define this. it's the physical geographic ones. Even in the event of Scotland becoming independent the people of Scotland would still be connected to him.
    It Came From Darkmoor...

    A Blog dedicated to the British corner of the Marvel Universe.


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  10. #10
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    This is my thinking also. "Britain" denotes the land mass of England, Scotland and Wales, "Great Britain" is the land mass of Britain + Ireland. If Scotland leave, they will still be British (the same way the Irish are still British); they just won't be part of the UK.
    Maybe they can use this.

    Brian can become just Captain Englad. And he can become a part of a team with Captain Ireland and Captain Scotland. But if things really get tough, they can all merge together to become the Great Captain Britain.

    That's a Saturday Morning Cartoon waiting to happen.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Hound View Post
    As a passport carrying Irish woman, I have to correct you here KF. There's a lot of confusion about this, but Irish citizens are definitely not British. Most people in Northern Ireland would describe themselves as British, but not all; and I'd never call one British without knowing their politics first. Funnily enough if you're born in the North, despite being a British citizen, you're also entitled to be an Irish one.

    You're right about the British Isles including the whole island of Ireland. I admit it's all fairly illogical but that's politics in Ireland.

    I don't know if an independent Scotland would still consider themselves part of Britain? They may still have to nut it out.

    I have a feeling Captain Britain's remit sort of includes Ireland. (I think I saw it on a map once). Like his boundaries are more mystical than political.

    Would he have to change his uniform to remove the blue bit of the flag? And out of interest, does the British flag have to change if the Scots vote yes?

    Weirdly enough, here in Australia where I live the head of state is constitutionally the monarch of the UK, so if the Scots vote yes, then they also remove Elizabeth as Australian head of State, and give us a problem. Speaking of unintended consequences.
    Actually, Salmond has said that Elizabeth would still be the monarch an independent Scotland, but it would be a truly symbolic title only whereas in Britain at current she could (theoretically) have some political influence, but generally stays removed, so you'd still have Lizzy as head of state down under... which I am sure is thrilling news.

  12. #12
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Haddock View Post
    Actually, Salmond has said that Elizabeth would still be the monarch an independent Scotland, but it would be a truly symbolic title only whereas in Britain at current she could (theoretically) have some political influence, but generally stays removed, so you'd still have Lizzy as head of state down under... which I am sure is thrilling news.
    At this point isn't it essentially just a symbolic title even in Britain?

  13. #13
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Hound View Post
    As a passport carrying Irish woman, I have to correct you here KF. There's a lot of confusion about this, but Irish citizens are definitely not British. Most people in Northern Ireland would describe themselves as British, but not all; and I'd never call one British without knowing their politics first. Funnily enough if you're born in the North, despite being a British citizen, you're also entitled to be an Irish one.
    You're right about the British Isles including the whole island of Ireland. I admit it's all fairly illogical but that's politics in Ireland.
    I don't know if an independent Scotland would still consider themselves part of Britain? They may still have to nut it out.
    Irish citizens might not see themselves as British, but they are! They live on the land mass of Great Britain, they are, by definition, British. The same way Canadians are Americas (they are on the continent of North America). Now I agree it gets confusing because both "American" and "British" have taken on a more 'common use' terminology. Irish people (in the country Ireland) are not "British" in terms of the political affiliation, no.

    Irish people are:
    Irish (land mass of Ireland)
    "Irish" (identify as the political country Ireland)
    British (part of the land mass Great Britain)
    European (part of the continent of Europe)
    "European" (part of the EU)

    It gets confusing, and I promise I'm not picking a fight, but (in regards to Captain Britain) I see him getting his powers from GREAT BRITAIN meaning the two islands (and from all the British who live there). So Scotland leaving or staying won't effect his power.

    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    At this point isn't it essentially just a symbolic title even in Britain?
    Not true, the Queen has emergency power, specifically to stop dictators ever taking over.
    a) she has the power to dissolve Parliament (ending a radical government, if they ever got in)
    b) the army swears allegiance TO THE QUEEN not to Parliament. And no dictator can ever stay in power without the army, who they actually can't "override" if the Queen gives a counter-command.

    Britain is all about "checks and balances", the Queen is a vital part of that.
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 09-18-2014 at 03:59 AM.

  14. #14
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Irish citizens might not see themselves as British, but they are! They live on the land mass of Great Britain, they are, by definition, British. The same way Canadians are Americas (they are on the continent of North America). Now I agree it gets confusing because both "American" and "British" have taken on a more 'common use' terminology.

    Irish people are:
    Irish (land mass of Ireland)
    "Irish" (identify as the political country Ireland)
    British (part of the land mass Great Britain)
    European (part of the continent of Europe)
    "European" (part of the EU)

    It gets confusing, and I promise I'm not picking a fight, but (in regards to Captain Britain) I see him getting his powers from GREAT BRITAIN the two islands (and from all the British who live there). So Scotland leaving or staying won't effect his power.


    Not true, the Queen has emergency power, specifically to stop dictators ever taking over.
    a) she has the power to dissolve Parliament (ending a radical government, if they ever got in)
    b) the army swears allegiance TO THE QUEEN not to Parliament. And no dictator can ever stay in power without the army, who they actually can't "override" if the Queen gives a counter-command.

    Britain is all about "checks and balances", the Queen is a vital part of that.
    Giving a single unelected official the power over the army and to end a democratically elected parliament seems more like a means of creating a dictator than a means of preventing one. It's sort of what happened in Star Wars. Not that the Queen is a dictator... just saying.

    But I didn't know the Queen could do that. That's interesting.

  15. #15
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Giving a single unelected official the power over the army and to end a democratically elected parliament seems more like a means of creating a dictator than a means of preventing one. It's sort of what happened in Star Wars.
    We've been very, very lucky to have (easily since Victoria, if not longer) monarchs who seem to take a very serious attitude to the respect that huge power/responsibility comes with. Obvious each monarch instils that same attitude in the heir, to help continue that tradition (the same way, back with Charles I, the BAD attitude of "chosen by God" was instilled in his children, hence the civil war). The only bad egg was Edward VII, and he abdicated (and we got George VI, a wonderful king).

    You need unelected AND elected people to truly govern. If you only use elected people, they will be focused on getting re-elected, NOT necessarily doing what is right in the long run (even if a lot see it as unpopular in the short term). That is the whole point of the House of Lords... but anyway, we have strayed waaaaaay off path. Back to Captain Britain goodness!

    I'd actually love to know if Brian is in the House of Lords? Wouldn't he have gained the seat from his father (who surely was in it).

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