View Poll Results: How will Brian Braddock be affected by Scottish independence?

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  • He will be better than ever!

    1 5.88%
  • He will retain his usual effectiveness. (Please explain what this means to you.)

    10 58.82%
  • He's done. Send in the new Captain Britain already.

    0 0%
  • Who cares about this guy? (No one.) Give me Captain Scotland!

    4 23.53%
  • I don't like or know anything about comics.

    2 11.76%
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  1. #16
    Incredible Member Bafflement's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Irish citizens might not see themselves as British, but they are! They live on the land mass of Great Britain, they are, by definition, British. The same way Canadians are Americas (they are on the continent of North America). Now I agree it gets confusing because both "American" and "British" have taken on a more 'common use' terminology. Irish people (in the country Ireland) are not "British" in terms of the political affiliation, no.
    Actually, they don't live on Great Britain by all usage, as it commonly refers to the landmass occupied by England, Scotland and Wales. Ireland is part of the British Isles though.

  2. #17
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bafflement View Post
    Actually, they don't live on Great Britain by all usage, as it commonly refers to the landmass occupied by England, Scotland and Wales. Ireland is part of the British Isles though.
    No, that's Britain. Great Britain is the two islands. But is is confusing (damn land definitions).

  3. #18
    Lick on, sweet prince. Sea Hound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Irish citizens might not see themselves as British, but they are! They live on the land mass of Great Britain, they are, by definition, British. The same way Canadians are Americas (they are on the continent of North America). Now I agree it gets confusing because both "American" and "British" have taken on a more 'common use' terminology. Irish people (in the country Ireland) are not "British" in terms of the political affiliation, no.

    Irish people are:
    Irish (land mass of Ireland)
    "Irish" (identify as the political country Ireland)
    British (part of the land mass Great Britain)
    European (part of the continent of Europe)
    "European" (part of the EU)

    It gets confusing, and I promise I'm not picking a fight, but (in regards to Captain Britain) I see him getting his powers from GREAT BRITAIN meaning the two islands (and from all the British who live there). So Scotland leaving or staying won't effect his power.


    Not true, the Queen has emergency power, specifically to stop dictators ever taking over.
    a) she has the power to dissolve Parliament (ending a radical government, if they ever got in)
    b) the army swears allegiance TO THE QUEEN not to Parliament. And no dictator can ever stay in power without the army, who they actually can't "override" if the Queen gives a counter-command.

    Britain is all about "checks and balances", the Queen is a vital part of that.
    Where are you getting your facts KF? Because I've done an internet search and Great Britain is defined as the larger island. The people of the republic are not ethnically, culturally or politically British. We are geographically part of the British Isles, which has no official basis, (use is actually discouraged by the Irish government) but not part of Great Britain. I can't find any source that would describe Ireland as part of it.

    We may have to agree to disagree.

    With regard to my other country, (dual citizen) Australia our constitution states specifically that our head of state is the monarch of the UK, so apparently if the UK breaks up, then we probably have no legal head of state. Aussies are fairly split about whether a republic is a good thing or not.

    I'm fine with the idea of Captain Britain representing both islands because it's fiction. Also, he's a decent bloke.

    Personally, I'm holding out for a Si Spurrier written European based team with Captain Britain, Meggan, Wisdom, Banshee, Nightcrawler, Hercules and Magik on it. Chances of it happening are slim to zero I admit.
    Last edited by Sea Hound; 09-18-2014 at 05:01 AM.
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  4. #19
    Nothing is safe TakoM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    No, that's Britain. Great Britain is the two islands. But is is confusing (damn land definitions).
    To complete the confusing what he meant I think is the United Kingdom (U.K) at least that is it what it called on my atlas.
    The question is does anyone call himself U.K.ler?

    By the way the U.S.A have also many islands with confusing citizen statuses which where conquered at the beginning of the 20th century.

    Edit: About the vote I don't know how the result will be like anyone else^^ It's so 50/50 which make it impossible to make predictions.
    Last edited by TakoM; 09-18-2014 at 05:29 AM.

  5. #20
    Incredible Member 1olee1's Avatar
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    He can represents both nations but his costume might need a change to have the St Andrew Cross separate from whatever becomes of the Union Jack if it's redesigned.

    Also Britain and Great Britain are interchangeable as the it's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

  6. #21
    Mighty Member Coin Biter's Avatar
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    He should change his name and change his costume.

    I like Brian Braddock, but I have to say I've always disliked flag-related costumes, except when worn by superhuman government agents in oppressive totalitarian regimes, such as in Red Son. Leave the flag-wearing stuff to Private Rogers and Geri Halliwell.

    I'm more interested in what kind of flag to replace the Union Flag that we would come up with in the event of Scottish independence. Personally, I think they should not use the Welsh flag as the centrepiece. Dragons FTW.

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member krazijoe's Avatar
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    How did he fare when the UK lost Australia? When they lost Canada?

  8. #23
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post

    You need unelected AND elected people to truly govern. If you only use elected people, they will be focused on getting re-elected, NOT necessarily doing what is right in the long run (even if a lot see it as unpopular in the short term).
    Victor von Doom would agree with this except for the elected part.

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coin Biter View Post
    He should change his name and change his costume.

    I like Brian Braddock, but I have to say I've always disliked flag-related costumes, except when worn by superhuman government agents in oppressive totalitarian regimes, such as in Red Son. Leave the flag-wearing stuff to Private Rogers and Geri Halliwell.

    I'm more interested in what kind of flag to replace the Union Flag that we would come up with in the event of Scottish independence. Personally, I think they should not use the Welsh flag as the centrepiece. Dragons FTW.
    He'd have to remove the blue from his costume but he'd still be Captain Britain. Great Britain will still exist as Ireland, Wales and Northern Ireland but it will no longer have Scotland's colours in the Union Jack as it won't be part of the United Kingdom anymore. Replacing the blue with green since Northern Ireland and Wales have that on both of their flags would work.

    Also any flags which feature the Union Jack will have to change to no longer include the St Andrew's Cross as part of it.

    Whatever the new Union Flag is in 18 months once the separation of the union is finished, his costume will have to reflect that.

    In a side note, the idea of wanting independence but still wanting to keep the pound stirling and the Queen as a ceremonial head of state... doesn't sound like independence to me. If the union is to divide, then shouldn't it be a complete separation? I mean Australia have a completely different currency as do Canada even though the Queen is on their currency.

  10. #25
    Mighty Member Coin Biter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krazijoe View Post
    How did he fare when the UK lost Australia? When they lost Canada?
    (a) Australia and Canada were not part of the United Kingdom, rather they were governed as part of the British empire, (b) the flag didn't have to be changed when they left, and (c) you could also have asked that question in relation to Indian independence, South African independence, etc. All those countries are still part of the Commonwealth, which is an intergovernmental organisation.

    And in any event (d) he wouldn't have been alive :-)

  11. #26
    File Clerk of MI13 The Sword is Drawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Giving a single unelected official the power over the army and to end a democratically elected parliament seems more like a means of creating a dictator than a means of preventing one. It's sort of what happened in Star Wars. Not that the Queen is a dictator... just saying.

    But I didn't know the Queen could do that. That's interesting.

    No Monarch has tried to excersise such archaic laws in centuries, though. The likelihood of it holding water is uncertain. But yes, the army and security services are indeed sworn in service to the Crown and not it's government.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    I'd actually love to know if Brian is in the House of Lords? Wouldn't he have gained the seat from his father (who surely was in it).

    Sir James Braddock was a 'Sir' and not a Lord. He would not have held a seat in The Lords.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coin Biter View Post
    He should change his name and change his costume.

    The costume? Plausibly. Depending if the Union Flag were to be altered.

    The name? No. There would still be a Britain. It's just possible that today Scotland may (and it's still absolutely MAY at the moment) opt to leave it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Coin Biter View Post
    I like Brian Braddock, but I have to say I've always disliked flag-related costumes, except when worn by superhuman government agents in oppressive totalitarian regimes, such as in Red Son. Leave the flag-wearing stuff to Private Rogers and Geri Halliwell.

    But given that Brian is literally powered by the very psyche of the people of the British Isles does he not hold that right? I mean what other character more tangibly embodies a people THAN Captain Britain?


    Quote Originally Posted by Coin Biter View Post
    I'm more interested in what kind of flag to replace the Union Flag that we would come up with in the event of Scottish independence. Personally, I think they should not use the Welsh flag as the centrepiece. Dragons FTW.
    I think that the blue of the Union Flag would have to become Green and some kind of Dragon motif be present. Still a big IF right now.


    Quote Originally Posted by krazijoe View Post
    How did he fare when the UK lost Australia? When they lost Canada?

    Pretty much the same. In Marvel comics the power is brought from the people who inhabit the geographical region of the British Isles. Because this is where Otherworld interesects with the physical world. Political borders should not effect that.
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  12. #27
    Mighty Member Coin Biter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PocketfulofKryptonite View Post
    He'd have to remove the blue from his costume but he'd still be Captain Britain. Great Britain will still exist as Ireland, Wales and Northern Ireland but it will no longer have Scotland's colours in the Union Jack as it won't be part of the United Kingdom anymore. Replacing the blue with green since Northern Ireland and Wales have that on both of their flags would work.

    Also any flags which feature the Union Jack will have to change to no longer include the St Andrew's Cross as part of it.

    Whatever the new Union Flag is in 18 months once the separation of the union is finished, his costume will have to reflect that.

    In a side note, the idea of wanting independence but still wanting to keep the pound stirling and the Queen as a ceremonial head of state... doesn't sound like independence to me. If the union is to divide, then shouldn't it be a complete separation? I mean Australia have a completely different currency as do Canada even though the Queen is on their currency.
    Yeah, I guess he could keep his name :-)

    You're absolutely right about the currency. The Queen is still the constitutional monarch for Australia and Canada, but the political parties (Conservatives, Labour and Lib Dems) have stated that they wouldn't allow Scotland to have the same currency. Alec Salmond claims he can force them into doing it by repudiating Scotland's share of the national debt, but that would be a mad threat - Scotland's credit-rating would fall through the floor. I think Scotland is going to have to have a separate currency - they can't adopt the Euro as yet because that has a lengthy application process and they'd have to apply for separate membership of the EU.

    Just my view, though.

  13. #28
    Astonishing Member krazijoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coin Biter View Post
    (a) Australia and Canada were not part of the United Kingdom, rather they were governed as part of the British empire, (b) the flag didn't have to be changed when they left, and (c) you could also have asked that question in relation to Indian independence, South African independence, etc. All those countries are still part of the Commonwealth, which is an intergovernmental organisation.

    And in any event (d) he wouldn't have been alive :-)
    I thought there was always a Captain Britain? I also thought that they were a part of the UK just not a part of Great Britain? Nope, I was wrong...Seems I didn't listen back in 7th grade *mumble mumble* years ago...
    Last edited by krazijoe; 09-18-2014 at 06:41 AM.

  14. #29
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    Since Braddock's powers originate from Otherworld, an extrapolation of the poll/question would be how would that realm be affected?
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  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coin Biter View Post
    Yeah, I guess he could keep his name :-)

    You're absolutely right about the currency. The Queen is still the constitutional monarch for Australia and Canada, but the political parties (Conservatives, Labour and Lib Dems) have stated that they wouldn't allow Scotland to have the same currency. Alec Salmond claims he can force them into doing it by repudiating Scotland's share of the national debt, but that would be a mad threat - Scotland's credit-rating would fall through the floor. I think Scotland is going to have to have a separate currency - they can't adopt the Euro as yet because that has a lengthy application process and they'd have to apply for separate membership of the EU.

    Just my view, though.
    Haven't Spain already said they won't accept them into the EU until they can prove economic stability and independence for at least 5 years because of the EU financial crisis related to Italy, Ireland, Greece and France? I also think Germany might have issues since they have been constantly forced to fund the bail out.

    I think it is telling a lot of notable wealthy Scots and even the Royal Bank of Scotland have suggested they'd want to move to the UK even if it does lose Scotland as part of the union because they will have only a year and a half to work out a whole new form of independent governance, taxation and international relationships without the financial codependence of the rest of the United Kingdom behind them. 18 months to set up a whole new regime is going to be very difficult, their previous efforts in Panama that failed were partly why they joined the union to begin with.

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