The Greatest Criminal Mind Of Our Time: an all-encompassing LEX LUTHOR discussion

[Kuwagaton]

Aside from very loyal robots he uh, had a conjoined twin assistant? If that's close.

Lex to me was always best with his regular assistants instead of actual slaves or yes men. A guy like that always seems at home surrounded by beautiful, competent woman and the occasional mad scientist subordinate.

[magha_regulus]

I've always liked Luthor's biological experiments. I think Luthor and Superman have an opposing M.O. in their scientific pursuits. Superman is more about robots while Luthor is more about biological experimentation (although he is also really good at robotics and other sciences as well). I think the Kryptonian disdain for cloning adds some fuel to this potential scientific debate. I think Luthor has a God complex. He's not only trying to improve on life, but also create it in his own image as well. Luthor's God complex should be explored more.

[Adekis]

Lex to me was always best with his regular assistants instead of actual slaves or yes men. A guy like that always seems at home surrounded by beautiful, competent woman and the occasional mad scientist subordinate.

I agree. Remember his assistant from Last Son of Krypton, BJ Tolley? I liked her, she could stand to come back. I think Luthor would actually hate yes-men. He's too straightforward for that. I mean, not like, Kingpin Lex, but you know, most Luthors.

[Kuwagaton]

Last Son of Krypton should be a Force Awakens style redo of the first movie.

The funny thing about Lex in the 80s and 90s was that although he seriously wanted everyone under his iron fist, his best associated characters were those who managed to slip out just a bit. Chiefly Amanda McCoy, Gretchen Kelley, early Vril Dox, Contessa, Joanna Da Costa. Happersen, though, was hilariously snug in that grip. He was basically Smithers.

[Adekis]

Last Son of Krypton should be a Force Awakens style redo of the first movie.

The funny thing about Lex in the 80s and 90s was that although he seriously wanted everyone under his iron fist, his best associated characters were those who managed to slip out just a bit. Chiefly Amanda McCoy, Gretchen Kelley, early Vril Dox, Contessa, Joanna Da Costa. Happersen, though, was hilariously snug in that grip. He was basically Smithers.

Last Son of Krypton? Is that a fan name for Man of Steel 2? Because I'm against Force Awakens style redos.

As for the late '80s and '90s, I definitely like a lot of those characters-- but unfortunately, I don't usually like their Lex! He got a little better later on in the late '90s, I suppose, but somehow I just never saw Luthor as someone who'd sell his daughter to Brainiac. He's too human for that.

Although I've gotta admit, those two panels with Happerson are absolute comedy gold. I still maintain that "Kingpin Lex" is a good enough character to exist in his own right, I just don't think he oughtta be Luthor, haha!

[Kuwagaton]

To be honest, I have always strggled with Star Wars, and the Force Awakens just reframing so much of the old movie helped me. I similarly struggled with the original StM, it just feels old to me. If Maggin's story, which I haven't actually read, is so similar to StM that he joked about suing Puzo, I'd like to see that actual story brought about when it's time to re-establish Superman.

The one rationale I have for giving away his daughter, which I didn't like, was that he lost his soul to Neron and became worse. Well, literally. Although there were some decent stories here and there, I didn't really feel like he was human anymore. As nasty or downright evil as he can be, he is human. That's the one thing I thing Eisenberg's Lex was missing. I know he was intentionally very annoying, but he still could have used a little charm.

[daBronzeBomma]

I've always liked Luthor's biological experiments. I think Luthor and Superman have an opposing M.O. in their scientific pursuits. Superman is more about robots while Luthor is more about biological experimentation (although he is also really good at robotics and other sciences as well). I think the Kryptonian disdain for cloning adds some fuel to this potential scientific debate. I think Luthor has a God complex. He's not only trying to improve on life, but also create it in his own image as well. Luthor's God complex should be explored more.

I agree with this. Luthor wanting to create life in his own image speaks most deeply to his own god / savior complex. And this should be a field of science that just creeps Clark out.

But I also agree that Lex doesn't want slaves. He's not Darkseid. He would love their loyalty, tho. I still think Luthor having minions isn't a bad idea, as long as he treats them humanely, like Gru treats his in the DM movies. Because, to paraphrase FOREVER EVIL, they may be minions, but they are HIS minions.

Speaking of fields of science, I would love it if more was consistently made of the idea that Lex is a basically a super polymath, the world's greatest scientist. He should be top 5 in the DCU for basically every major field of science, and top 2 in engineering, physics, chemistry, biology, computer programming, etc.

[llozymandias]

I agree with this. Luthor wanting to create life in his own image speaks most deeply to his own god / savior complex. And this should be a field of science that just creeps Clark out.

But I also agree that Lex doesn't want slaves. He's not Darkseid. He would love their loyalty, tho. I still think Luthor having minions isn't a bad idea, as long as he treats them humanely, like Gru treats his in the DM movies. Because, to paraphrase FOREVER EVIL, they may be minions, but they are HIS minions.

Speaking of fields of science, I would love it if more was consistently made of the idea that Lex is a basically a super polymath, the world's greatest scientist. He should be top 5 in the DCU for basically every major field of science, and top 2 in engineering, physics, chemistry, biology, computer programming, etc.

Also (pre-coie) whenever Brainiac was in fear of his life; Lex was his go-to guy. Plus the fact that back then Brainiac expressed admiration for Lex's intellect. To my mind this proves that Brainy saw Lex as his intellectual superior. A being like Brainy does not admire those sees as inferior. Nor for that matter anyone who is anywhere close to being his equal.


The way I see it is Lex would be close to the best boss you could ever have. Unless you betrayed him. If you doing that was part of one of his plans, ok. But betray him against his wishes/will, watch out. You would be safer in hell.

[daBronzeBomma]

The way I see it is Lex would be close to the best boss you could ever have. Unless you betrayed him. If you doing that was part of one of his plans, ok. But betray him against his wishes/will, watch out. You would be safer in hell.

That's a very interesting take for Luthor ... one that deserves much more consideration as one of Lex's defining traits. There's got to be good reasons why Lex isn't just tossed in prison and that's the end of it. He needs to be at least as publicly beloved as he is publicly reviled. Or at least, the people that love him are far more viciously committed to defending him than the people who hate him. See also IRL: our current president.

And yeah, crossing Lex (against his will, screwing up his plans) for an unprotected civilian (i.e. no superhero connections) should be worse than a death sentence. Lex would just "disappear" them, believably fake their death, then secretly keep them alive and in helpless captivity while he personally experiments on them at his leisure. Maybe he infects them with currently incurable diseases in order to unethically look for a profitable cure more quickly. Maybe he injects or exposes them to harmful substances/radiation in hopes of safely granting himself powers one day. Regardless, those prisoners of Lex would be begging for a death that will take too long to arrive.


The lesson: Never, ever cross Lex Luthor unless you have a constant and immediate line to Superman!



Something else here, switching gears slightly ...

Who makes up LexCorp's C-suite? And if it is not solidly defined, who should make it up?

I say, make LexCorp's Chief Officers as interesting yet sensible as possible.

A) If Lex is Chairman, Chief Executive Officer (CEO) and President of LexCorp all rolled into one (and he likely already is), then how about

B) Lena Luthor as Chief Operating Officer (COO), manages day-to-day operations

C) Mercy Graves as Chief Legal Officer (CLO) / acts as Chief Counsel to Lex

D) Eve Tessmacher as Chief Financial Officer (CFO), handles Lex's "above-board" fortunes

E) Dr. Gretchen Kelley as Chief Medical Officer (CMO), handle's Lex's personal health

F) Kitty Kowalski (SUPERMAN RETURNS) as Chief Communications Officer (CCO), basically Lex's daily public mouthpiece and media interface

I) Vera Webster (SUPERMAN III) as Chief Risk Officer (CRO), defecting from her brother Ross Webster (who should also be brought into the comics as Lex's rival)

H) Thaddeus Kilgrave as Chief Technology Officer (CTO)

G) Otis (Last Name Needed) as Chief Security Officer (CSO), more the competent YJ version than the bumbling STM version.

[manofsteel1979]

That's a very interesting take for Luthor ... one that deserves much more consideration as one of Lex's defining traits. There's got to be good reasons why Lex isn't just tossed in prison and that's the end of it. He needs to be at least as publicly beloved as he is publicly reviled. Or at least, the people that love him are far more viciously committed to defending him than the people who hate him. See also IRL: our current president.

And yeah, crossing Lex (against his will, screwing up his plans) for an unprotected civilian (i.e. no superhero connections) should be worse than a death sentence. Lex would just "disappear" them, believably fake their death, then secretly keep them alive and in helpless captivity while he personally experiments on them at his leisure. Maybe he infects them with currently incurable diseases in order to unethically look for a profitable cure more quickly. Maybe he injects or exposes them to harmful substances/radiation in hopes of safely granting himself powers one day. Regardless, those prisoners of Lex would be begging for a death that will take too long to arrive.


The lesson: Never, ever cross Lex Luthor unless you have a constant and immediate line to Superman!



Something else here, switching gears slightly ...

Who makes up LexCorp's C-suite? And if it is not solidly defined, who should make it up?

I say, make LexCorp's Chief Officers as interesting yet sensible as possible.

A) If Lex is Chairman, Chief Executive Officer (CEO) and President of LexCorp all rolled into one (and he likely already is), then how about

B) Lena Luthor as Chief Operating Officer (COO), manages day-to-day operations

C) Mercy Graves as Chief Legal Officer (CLO) / acts as Chief Counsel to Lex

D) Eve Tessmacher as Chief Financial Officer (CFO), handles Lex's "above-board" fortunes

E) Dr. Gretchen Kelley as Chief Medical Officer (CMO), handle's Lex's personal health

F) Kitty Kowalski (SUPERMAN RETURNS) as Chief Communications Officer (CCO), basically Lex's daily public mouthpiece and media interface

I) Vera Webster (SUPERMAN III) as Chief Risk Officer (CRO), defecting from her brother Ross Webster (who should also be brought into the comics as Lex's rival)

H) Thaddeus Kilgrave as Chief Technology Officer (CTO)

G) Otis (Last Name Needed) as Chief Security Officer (CSO), more the competent YJ version than the bumbling STM version.

Oh I like this version of Lexcorp.... Especially bringing in Killgrave as his chief mad scientist. That's awesome.

[daBronzeBomma]

I think Lex should have a pet.

Ignatius the (genetically modified) iguana, from KRYPTO THE SUPER DOG tv show, should be brought into the main DCU. He should be Luthor's familiar, always in his lap being petted, a la the cat by Vito Corleone in THE GODFATHER.

Also, Luthor should have his own army of automated Lexbots, which look just like the classic Pre-COIE warsuits, except they are all robots, each of whom can tangle with Superman. They can't kill or even seriously hurt a pissed-off Kal, but each one can hold him off for a few crucial minutes in a fight.

[Adekis]

To be honest, I have always strggled with Star Wars, and the Force Awakens just reframing so much of the old movie helped me. I similarly struggled with the original StM, it just feels old to me. If Maggin's story, which I haven't actually read, is so similar to StM that he joked about suing Puzo, I'd like to see that actual story brought about when it's time to re-establish Superman.

I'm of the firm opinion that Star Wars is rarely "good" or "deep", but it is always really fun and cool, and doesn't really need to be more than that most of the time. I love Star Wars.

As for Maggin's Last Son of Krypton, it's not really that much like Superman: the Movie at all. It's got some scenes from Clark's youth, it's got Luthor in it, and it came out around the same time as the movie. What happened with the lawsuit was that Puzo tried to sue Maggin, then Maggin wrote back with "not only is my book not even that much like your script, but I wrote it first!" Then Puzo sent Maggin flowers and a note that said "Just Kidding," which is pretty hilarious.

Granted, I'm 100% on Last Son being better than Superman 1, but it's heavily rooted in being a well-fleshed out version of the Pre-Crisis Superman. Last Son of Krypton and Miracle Monday could potentially be good movies, but not for a version of Superman who doesn't have Superboy flying around in his backstory, and whose Lois doesn't know his secret. And a lot of Superman's relationship with Luthor really depends on their friendship and falling-out in Smallville! I'm not convinced Hollywood would go for it; the version of Superman that Maggin's books portray are so far removed from all the post-Crisis and beyond influences that heavily inform contemporary Superman adaptations that it might be jarring to casual fans and feel "old" as Star Wars does to general audiences.

The one rationale I have for giving away his daughter, which I didn't like, was that he lost his soul to Neron and became worse. Well, literally. Although there were some decent stories here and there, I didn't really feel like he was human anymore. As nasty or downright evil as he can be, he is human. That's the one thing I thing Eisenberg's Lex was missing. I know he was intentionally very annoying, but he still could have used a little charm.

I don't like that Neron headcanon either, yuck. There's post-Neron stories where Luthor was okay, decently moral, if selfish and petty, and there's pre-Neron stories where Luthor is completely and obviously monstrous. Not only do I dislike it, I don't even think it really fits the given information. Luthor's just inconsistent, sadly. This observation applies to Luthor universally.

As for Dawn, I don't think Eisenberg's Luthor was that annoying, but either way, he was really human. He was extremely vulnerable, reacting to parental abuse, apparently drank heavily, and apparently overcame great fear as he shook with anxiety while confronting Superman. I don't generally love "unhinged" Luthor, and Eisenberg's portrayal was undeniably that, but I don't know that he can be accused of being inhuman.

[kjn]

Suprema Lex by Ookla the Mok, from their album "Vs Evil".

[Last Son]

Last Son of Krypton? Is that a fan name for Man of Steel 2? Because I'm against Force Awakens style redos.

As for the late '80s and '90s, I definitely like a lot of those characters-- but unfortunately, I don't usually like their Lex! He got a little better later on in the late '90s, I suppose, but somehow I just never saw Luthor as someone who'd sell his daughter to Brainiac. He's too human for that.

Although I've gotta admit, those two panels with Happerson are absolute comedy gold. I still maintain that "Kingpin Lex" is a good enough character to exist in his own right, I just don't think he oughtta be Luthor, haha!

The businessman Lex could either be a relative of a more traditional scientist Lex or just give him a new name altogether. I see no reason why the two versions of Lex couldn't co-exist as separate characters. You could have the Lex as he was established in the pre-crisis era with no changes(from Smallville, lost his hair in an accident, blames Superman, is strictly a scientist), while simultaneously you could have this CEO character who grew up in Suicide Slum and owns most of Metropolis. Sometimes I think it's just not worth it to try to shoehorn the history and traits of one version of Lex into another(like the Secret Origin version where Lex is shown living in Smallville and kills his father in an insurance scam).

[JBatmanFan05]

The funny thing about Lex in the 80s and 90s was that although he seriously wanted everyone under his iron fist, his best associated characters were those who managed to slip out just a bit. Chiefly Amanda McCoy, Gretchen Kelley, early Vril Dox, Contessa, Joanna Da Costa. Happersen, though, was hilariously snug in that grip. He was basically Smithers.

I always loved Lex's cultlike devotees. Lois & Clark did Gretchen Kelley pretty incorrectly (in comics she wasn't a mindless soulless Lex devotee her whole life), but I loved that the show drove home how Lex had people that were obsessed with serving him. Smallville nicely drove that home too in some episodes.

Lex can have that kind of power over some people.