The Greatest Criminal Mind Of Our Time: an all-encompassing LEX LUTHOR discussion

[Slaughter]

Isn't the design on this suit kind of dumb? I never knew why Superman couldn't just punch him in that opening that exposes his bald head.

Force-field. Also his massive ego acts as backup force-field.
It gets ironic if Superman takes out the force-field and then punches him... in the head. Pride before etc.

[W8IN4KAL-EL]

so Lex created a force shield strong enough to hold back Superman's strength? I would like to think that Supes doesn't try to punch him there because if/when he breaks through Luthor's head would be paste.

[Slaughter]

Anyone else thinks that Lex will become the villain of Reign of the Supers?
Of all the other heroes involved, Kara is undoubtedly good, Kenan is a jerk and narcisist but good-guy, Lana has problems but is good. Lex has been pulling a hero act, but he seems to be getting the short end of the deal in the super-books. He can't do anything without the others calling him a jerk, him getting battered for no tangible gain or leaving him out of the loop. At some point I think Lex will say screw being a hero and return to the darkseid of the force.

so Lex created a force shield strong enough to hold back Superman's strength? I would like to think that Supes doesn't try to punch him there because if/when he breaks through Luthor's head would be paste.

The field did last like five picoseconds in Darkseid War when Superman dipped into the firepit.

[W8IN4KAL-EL]

Didn't Superman become the 'god of strength'? I had a hard time with this because when he fought Wonder woman they seemed equal..'god of strength' ..yeah..right

[llozymandias]

Lionel Luthor is too worthy a character (even as a backstory character) to let go to waste.

I could see Lionel as the latest in a long line of Luthors who have steadily and slowly been building their wealth across the decades as LuthorCorp. Lionel would have been born rich and became wealthier (maybe worth about $20 million in 2016 US Dollars) by the time Lex was secretly conceived.

It's important to me that Lex be much more be a self-made man and not a trust-fund baby like Bruce Wayne.

Lex should have grown up poor (or at least remember his own poverty for the rest of his life) and then ruthlessly found a way out of Suicide Slum via his foster parents' murder and then going to the Ivy League as a child prodigy at age 9. 10 years in college to acquire an alphabet's soup worth of prestigious degrees (BS, MBA, PhD, JD and MD) by the time he was 19. Another 8-10 more years of exponential growth to acquire wealth and influence around the world. Still a young man (29-30) who has just finished climbing the ladders of power and already is the richest man in the world (legally personally worth at least $100 billion in 2016 US dollars) when Superman publicly debuts. Just before Superman shows up for the first time, Lex has LexCorp buy out and absorb the much smaller LuthorCorp, kills Lionel and gets back in touch with half-sister Lena. Everything is coming up Lex, he's become Metropolis' Favorite Son. And then Superman ruins everything just by existing.

Yes, Lex should be self-made. But his wealth should come from Lex being a super-genius.

[daBronzeBomma]

Didn't want to create a short- lived thread for a simple Luthor question, so I thought I'd place it here:

If mutants existed in the DCU as they do in the MU, how do you think Lex would take it?

He certainly has been shown to be xenophobic, but only when the races are terrestrial vs extra terrestrial.

Would Lex despise mutants as he does aliens, or ... would he embrace them as proof of humanity continuing its evolution toward inevitably dominating the universe?

Personally, I think Lex would welcome them in a sharp 180 degree take from who he views aliens on Earth. Now, if he found out that he lacked the gene to activate his own mutation, he may sour on them, but giving himself superpowers had always been a consistent goal of Lex's anyway, so this discovery wouldn't stop him from championing them or at least pitting them against aliens (well, ONE alien in particular).

What do you think?

[JBatmanFan05]

Lionel Luthor is too worthy a character (even as a backstory character) to let go to waste.

I could see Lionel as the latest in a long line of Luthors who have steadily and slowly been building their wealth across the decades as LuthorCorp. Lionel would have been born rich and became wealthier (maybe worth about $20 million in 2016 US Dollars) by the time Lex was secretly conceived.

It's important to me that Lex be much more be a self-made man and not a trust-fund baby like Bruce Wayne.

Lex should have grown up poor (or at least remember his own poverty for the rest of his life) and then ruthlessly found a way out of Suicide Slum via his foster parents' murder and then going to the Ivy League as a child prodigy at age 9. 10 years in college to acquire an alphabet's soup worth of prestigious degrees (BS, MBA, PhD, JD and MD) by the time he was 19. Another 8-10 more years of exponential growth to acquire wealth and influence around the world. Still a young man (29-30) who has just finished climbing the ladders of power and already is the richest man in the world (legally personally worth at least $100 billion in 2016 US dollars) when Superman publicly debuts. Just before Superman shows up for the first time, Lex has LexCorp buy out and absorb the much smaller LuthorCorp, kills Lionel and gets back in touch with half-sister Lena. Everything is coming up Lex, he's become Metropolis' Favorite Son. And then Superman ruins everything just by existing.

I give you mucho credit for a surprisingly clever way of reconciling the very different silver spoon Smallville Lionel vs poor Suicide Slum/Griggs origins.

I disagree that keeping both, reconciling both, is necessary to preserve Lex as the self-made man. I thought Smallville went to great pains to show how hard emotionally/etc abused Lex worked to get where he got and get out from his genius controlling powerful father. So, I'd ideally just want the Lionel origin very very similar to Smallville*, there was some real pathos in Lex's "trust-fund baby/silver spoon" origin it showed (it spun it all in a very dark dysfunctional light, reminding you that money doesn't always mean you'll have a good parents or a good childhood), but yours I'd take as my second favorite.

Also, Lex's silver spoon origin secondarily offers the, at least mildly, interesting subtle contrast of Superman (poor farmer working or middle class) vs Lex (the rich elite privileged corporate class)...a 30's-ish vibe thing (which maybe would be a tad undermined by the Suicide Slum origin stuff also being in there).


* I never imagined I'd turn on the Post-Crisis Suicide Slum origin, but Smallville really just convinced me otherwise, in a shocking creative feat

[manofsteel1979]

I give you mucho credit for a surprisingly clever way of reconciling the very different silver spoon Lionel vs poor Suicide Slum/Griggs origins.

I disagree that keeping both, reconciling both, is necessary to preserve Lex as the self-made man. I thought Smallville went to great pains to show how hard emotionally/etc abused Lex worked to get where he got and get out from his genius controlling powerful father. So, I'd ideally just want the Lionel origin very very similar to Smallville*, there was some real pathos in Lex's "trust-fund baby/silver spoon" origin it showed (it spun it all in a very dark dysfunctional light, reminding you that money doesn't always mean you'll have a good parents or a good childhood), but yours I'd take as my second favorite.

Also, Lex's silver spoon origin secondarily offers the, at least mildly, interesting subtle contrast of Superman (poor farmer working/streets class) vs Lex (the rich elite privileged corporate class)...a 30's-ish vibe thing (which maybe would be a tad undermined by the Suicide Slum origin stuff also being in there).


* I never imagined I'd turn on the Post-Crisis Suicide Slum origin, but Smallville really just convinced me otherwise, in a shocking creative feat

I agree wholeheartedly. In my head Canon, the first 5 seasons of Smallville is " my" origin for current Lex, with bits of season 7 ( Lionel's Death) and the finale ( President Luthor) . I choose to ignore the whole thing where he was married to Lana.

[Kuwagaton]

Didn't want to create a short- lived thread for a simple Luthor question, so I thought I'd place it here:

If mutants existed in the DCU as they do in the MU, how do you think Lex would take it?

He certainly has been shown to be xenophobic, but only when the races are terrestrial vs extra terrestrial.

Would Lex despise mutants as he does aliens, or ... would he embrace them as proof of humanity continuing its evolution toward inevitably dominating the universe?

Personally, I think Lex would welcome them in a sharp 180 degree take from who he views aliens on Earth. Now, if he found out that he lacked the gene to activate his own mutation, he may sour on them, but giving himself superpowers had always been a consistent goal of Lex's anyway, so this discovery wouldn't stop him from championing them or at least pitting them against aliens (well, ONE alien in particular).

What do you think?

Not all ignorance is created equally. Lex is socially and ethically ignorant, but not a prejudiced type of ignorant. Frankly, I don't even think he's discriminatory against aliens. Spent a lot of time today thinking about his long standing bromantic duel with Brainiac.

Mutants, aliens, humans... he looks down on them all without flinching at how they look or whatever. They're all pawns. Mutants may be the greatest pawns, as a general lack of public support for them makes them easier to exploit.

[JBatmanFan05]

I agree wholeheartedly. In my head Canon, the first 5 seasons of Smallville is " my" origin for current Lex, with bits of season 7 ( Lionel's Death) and the finale ( President Luthor) . I choose to ignore the whole thing where he was married to Lana.

And I agree wholeheartedly with your head canon and taking the good simpler stuff from the Smallville origin (and being free to head canon ignore certain things).

If I were to try to play devils advocate against myself on the Suicide Slum origin, I think the part I'd miss the most would when Lex gets revenge on foster father Casey Griggs in Superman #131 (Jan. 1998) by hiring him to assassinate Mayor Berkowitz and then assassinating Griggs for the frame job. But I'd probably just opt to convert Griggs into like a Lena Luthor's foster father or abusive ex husband or boyfriend. If there is one Lex sibling I'm most likely to keep in my head canon, it's Lena, who is a very longstanding and used enough DC character.

[daBronzeBomma]

I give you mucho credit for a surprisingly clever way of reconciling the very different silver spoon Smallville Lionel vs poor Suicide Slum/Griggs origins.

I disagree that keeping both, reconciling both, is necessary to preserve Lex as the self-made man. I thought Smallville went to great pains to show how hard emotionally/etc abused Lex worked to get where he got and get out from his genius controlling powerful father. So, I'd ideally just want the Lionel origin very very similar to Smallville*, there was some real pathos in Lex's "trust-fund baby/silver spoon" origin it showed (it spun it all in a very dark dysfunctional light, reminding you that money doesn't always mean you'll have a good parents or a good childhood), but yours I'd take as my second favorite.

That's high praise. Thank you.

Also, Lex's silver spoon origin secondarily offers the, at least mildly, interesting subtle contrast of Superman (poor farmer working or middle class) vs Lex (the rich elite privileged corporate class)...a 30's-ish vibe thing (which maybe would be a tad undermined by the Suicide Slum origin stuff also being in there).

* I never imagined I'd turn on the Post-Crisis Suicide Slum origin, but Smallville really just convinced me otherwise, in a shocking creative feat

I think I really like the idea that Lex understands the dark side of humanity far better (or more completely) than Clark. Clark is or should be raised staunchly American middle-class: never close to rich, but also never having homelessness be even a remote possibility. He didn't grow up with either the sadness of poverty nor the excess of wealth.

A Lex who has lived as both extremely poor and extremely rich, from Suicide Slum to the penthouse of LexCorp Tower, will far better understand how to manipulate humans of all walks of life than one who was always rich, IMHO. I want Lex to be crazy street-smart AND crazy book-smart. Street-smarts only come from experience.

Also, I do want Lex to be more than Bald Evil Bruce Wayne. More like Bruce Wayne + Victor von Doom + Reed Richards + Tony Stark + Scrooge McDuck = my ideal Lex Luthor

[daBronzeBomma]

Not all ignorance is created equally. Lex is socially and ethically ignorant, but not a prejudiced type of ignorant. Frankly, I don't even think he's discriminatory against aliens. Spent a lot of time today thinking about his long standing bromantic duel with Brainiac.

Mutants, aliens, humans... he looks down on them all without flinching at how they look or whatever. They're all pawns. Mutants may be the greatest pawns, as a general lack of public support for them makes them easier to exploit.

I can see Lex looking down at everyone (or, at least, never ever looking UP to anyone).

But I also think there is something there in his dislike for extraterrestrials that can be mined for good storytelling. I like the literally xenophobic aspect of Lex that pops up, provided it comes across clearly that Lex himself is not racist or prejudiced to any group of homo sapiens. He should see himself as the best of the best, and the obvious rightful choice to lead humanity to greatness, no matter the cost. He should live by the mantra of the ends always justifying the means.

There is a particularly funny (to me anyway) passage in Elliot S Maggin's 1978 novel THE LAST SON OF KRYPTON where Superman and Lex are discussing the motive for an intergalactic conqueror's traveling to Earth. Lex goes on about how Earth has all these billions of talented beings on the planet, just waiting for someone to give them direction in life, and this new conqueror is going to take over Earth by convincing them that conquering the galaxy will do just that for them. Lex compares what this new conqueror is doing to how the Crusades happened on Earth.

Supes then asks Lex if he's figured out that this approach would work on Earth, why hasn't Lex ever done it himself?

And Lex loses it with this reply for the ages: "What the sizzling suns do you think you've kept me from doing all these years, Jocko?! Playing Monopoly??!"

Superman (blown away): "Great Scott!"

Comedy gold.

[FishyZombie]

I didn’t think Lex had an appreciation thread, cool

[daBronzeBomma]

So, who here has watched any of the DESPICABLE ME movies (DM, DM2, MINIONS, DM3)?

Is the main character, Felonious Gru, not at least partly inspired by Lex Luthor?



Well, Pre-Crisis Luthor as done by Maggin, perhaps?

I see flashes of various Luthors in Gru, esp in the 1st movie. But that's not what my main question is.

That question is:

Shouldn't Lex Luthor have his own Minions?

Little, secret, subhuman creatures (though they'd be of his own creation in the DCU) who are blindly loyal to Lex and doing a lot of the dirty work for him?

I know Pre-COIE Lex had in his criminal origins an obsession with creating life in a lab (and then blaming Superboy Kal-El for its demise while Clark was saving Lex and causing his hair loss when said lab blew up).

What if Lex stopped it with the Bizarros and started making his own Minions instead?

[Adekis]

That question is:

Shouldn't Lex Luthor have his own Minions?

Little, secret, subhuman creatures (though they'd be of his own creation in the DCU) who are blindly loyal to Lex and doing a lot of the dirty work for him?

I know Pre-COIE Lex had in his criminal origins an obsession with creating life in a lab (and then blaming Superboy Kal-El for its demise while Clark was saving Lex and causing his hair loss when said lab blew up).

What if Lex stopped it with the Bizarros and started making his own Minions instead?

I don't think Luthor would actually be comfortable with blindly loyal, subhuman creatures. Consider that when the experiment where Kal killed his protoplasm (and he did kill it, spilling the same toxic chemicals onto the blob as he did onto Lex's hair follicles) didn't go wrong in the Pocket Universe, he manipulated his creation, but didn't enslave her. I think that just as any contemporary American would be, Luthor's probably very uncomfortable with the thought of owning slaves. Even genetically modified slaves with-subhuman intelligence that he grew himself.

Even in something like Titans Tomorrow, where he's Conner "Superman" Kent's boss, and Conner follows all his orders to villainous or totalitarian ends, it's not because he's Luthor's slave, but because he regards Luthor as his "Pa". They've got a decently affectionate, if inherently perverse, relationship.

Anyway, I don't know if I can think of a single story where Luthor creates anything akin to Minions, and it's certainly within his capabilities.

Oh, though as far as the Minions' outright silliness, which Lex would never put up with, the only comparison has to be with Otis (the hated one), and he's just an incompetent employee!