Characterization in Uncanny Avengers

[Star_Jammer]

"she needed a lesson"

Yeah, life is full of lessons. One never stops learning from trial and error, mistakes, misunderstandings, and from interactions with other people (well, at least I hope they don't).

I know that may be hard to understand for (random example) a rebellious teenager, but Rogue seems like she's above that.

[Mikekerr3]

She wasn't protecting mutants, quite the opposite actually. Rogue's resentment and hatred blinded her, and caused her to stab and kill a teammate. She sorely needed a lesson in letting go of petty grudges.

that teammate had just finished another attack on the entire mutant population . One that was only not mass murder because the Twins were thankfully smarter than Wanda.

Are teammates supposed to let other members of the team commit mass murder?

She was transporting them, not mind controlling them to fight. The cannon fodder accusation is ridiculous on its face, as nobody would have fought who didn't agree to, and there's no reason to believe the Twins would have attacked any mutants who didn't first choose to oppose them.

People deing dropped into a battlefield untrained, unprepared and unwillingly can be called either "Cannon fodder' or "human sacrifices", take you pick.

I have a clue for you on a battlefield you don't get to chose if you are killed not not even if you want nothing to do with the fight,I t is either incredibly naive to think so or idiotic, again take your pic

She
I'll agree that it was a dumb, dumb, dumb plan, and that there would have been a significant risk of those who chose to be noncombatants being harmed as collateral damage since there wouldn't have been time or space for them to get away from the conflict. Absent knowledge of Exitar coming, there was no good reason for her to even pretend to cooperate with the Twins, or at least to actually transport mutants off planet as opposed to using Simon's energy to fuel an entirely different sort of hex.

If you dumb plan predicable results in the deaths of innocents, then implementing your dumb plan would be called murder. Selecting whom the victims to be based on their race, makes it either a hate crime or genocide depending on how many get killed by your plan.

All her hex was doing was transporting them. NO mind control was mentioned, so if they didn't feel like fighting, they wouldn't have. Wanda may have naively thought everybody would agree to fight the Twins, but that's not the same as a single hex accomplishing TWO massive feats (the teleportation and the mind control).

As it happened, the Twins were able to twist her hex so they all landed in those stasis chambers, but unless you can find me a line where it says the hex was going to actively mind control people to fight, it wasn't.

Have you ever seem a riot or a fire fight or even something like a major riot? You don't get the choice on whether you get killed or not.

[totalsellout]

how is it mass murder ?

[Mikekerr3]

how is it mass murder ?

Kidnapping people and dropping them into a leathal situation makes every single death Felony murder, and since most of the Mutants in the MU have no combat training there would be a lot of deaths

[hawkeyefan]

Would it be wrong of me to say that at this point, I think most x-fans should be happy with Scarlet Witch. Surely no other single character has given them such cause to be utterly miserable, which they seem to thrive on.

I would think that must be why they would continue to read this book, no?

[klinton]

Would it be wrong of me to say that at this point, I think most x-fans should be happy with Scarlet Witch. Surely no other single character has given them such cause to be utterly miserable, which they seem to thrive on.

I would think that must be why they would continue to read this book, no?

While your tone is a little off, I kind of agree.

She's become the 'villain' that some people love to hate. Which is actually perfectly fine. She's a fictional character who's sole purpose is to entertain readers. I think she does that as much for her detractors as she does for her fans.

It's all good.

[Froggy]

Would it be wrong of me to say that at this point, I think most x-fans should be happy with Scarlet Witch. Surely no other single character has given them such cause to be utterly miserable, which they seem to thrive on.

I would think that must be why they would continue to read this book, no?

I think it's like Remender knows this and continues to draw them in with it all?

[dragonmp93]

Would it be wrong of me to say that at this point, I think most x-fans should be happy with Scarlet Witch. Surely no other single character has given them such cause to be utterly miserable, which they seem to thrive on.

I would think that must be why they would continue to read this book, no?

Well, i still read it for Rogue.

And yes, we are happy with her; the problem starts when some people insist in that we should forgive her.

[hawkeyefan]

While your tone is a little off, I kind of agree.

She's become the 'villain' that some people love to hate. Which is actually perfectly fine. She's a fictional character who's sole purpose is to entertain readers. I think she does that as much for her detractors as she does for her fans.

It's all good.

I honestly didn't mean that as snarky as it sounded. It just seems to be the only explanation. If I was as upset about characterization in a book as a lot of folks here seem to be, I wouldn't continue to support the book. It just seems a bit masochistic in that sense.

I don't necessarily agree about the characterization, but it's all opinion, and plenty of folks have stated their case and I definitely understand some of the points.

I think it's like Remender knows this and continues to draw them in with it all?

Controversy does serve it's purpose, that's true. I don't know if he does as much as some seem to think to rule things up, but I do believe that he does play it up at least a bit.

It reminds me of the Howard Stern movie when they were talking about why his ratings were so high...they said the average fan listens for a half hour a day. The average hater listened for 2 hours.

Well, i still read it for Rogue.

And yes, we are happy with her; the problem starts when some people insist in that we should forgive her.

I think people can feel however they want about the character. Personally, I feel it's obvious the way things are going, and denying it seems futile. They are building Wanda back up as a hero. And while I can understand people who don't like that for whatever reason, I don't get why they fight it so. It's all made up....they can make her whatever they want.

[klinton]

Well, i still read it for Rogue.

And yes, we are happy with her; the problem starts when some people insist in that we should forgive her.

I don't think anyone expects anyone to 'forgive' her.

It's really just a matter of respecting your fellows in coversation. Avengers readers don't go to the Wanda bashing threads on the X-boards and insist that she's awesome, yet persons feel the need to inject thier Wanda bashing into every conversation over here about her.

Start as many 'Burn the Witch' threads as you want. Complain all day long about how terrible she is in the paralell X-board discussions of Uncanny Avengers.

Also understand that there are many Avengers fans who don't share your assessement and who just wish to discuss the books without your particular slant on her.

It's really less about the character and more about respecting the fans. All of them, on both sides of the fence.

[dragonmp93]

I don't think anyone expects anyone to 'forgive' her.

It's really just a matter of respecting your fellows in coversation. Avengers readers don't go to the Wanda bashing threads on the X-boards and insist that she's awesome, yet persons feel the need to inject thier Wanda bashing into every conversation over here about her.

Start as many 'Burn the Witch' threads as you want. Complain all day long about how terrible she is in the paralell X-board discussions of Uncanny Avengers.

Also understand that there are many Avengers fans who don't share your assessement and who just wish to discuss the books without your particular slant on her.

It's really less about the character and more about respecting the fans. All of them, on both sides of the fence.

Well, the problem is that basically no one at the X-board think that Uncanny Avengers is X-book too; and as a poll set up by a mod showed, the general opinión over there is that this book is an Avengers book with X-men characters in it.

And as the Uncanny X-men review threads can you show you; in this fórum, you cant have a discussion without the haters interferance.

[CJStriker]

Well, i still read it for Rogue.

And yes, we are happy with her; the problem starts when some people insist in that we should forgive her.

This is kind of the general thing that has been getting mis-understood for so long; just for me with what I have been saying for most of my posts for the the past 2 years that I can remember writing is NOT forgive her Now, BUT let the story that is going on right now play out. By what I have read since Children's Crusades, to AvX, to Uncanny Avengers and Now to AXIS, Marvel has be Very Slow playing this story out for Wanda, both Milking All It Can out of the HoM story and then just like they did keeping her out for so long from the books, now they are taking their time to bring her back.

The point is at this point, all I am saying is; What the Story is Going on Now, Let it Play Out!

That will be the Rest of UA, All of AXIS and the aftermath after that leading Threw Avengers 2.

Their is no answer from any single or few singles issues that has happen, but it is a long process that I see Marvel as taking their time in with her to Tell A Story, that is the Core of it that I See as a Wanda fan and I believe other Wanda Fans see as well. Give the Story time to Play itself out and don't call fool when the story is still being told and saying that is it.

Let it play out, after with how long Wanda fans have had to wait for this, that is really all we want to see happen and are willing to wait for that, at least that is for me.

[Rochedalaix]

She REMEBERS WHAT SHE DID, and she's not happy about that BECAUSE SHE'S A GOOD PERSON and good people don't enjoy killing, they feel remorse for it, EXPECIALLY HEROES! I like Rogue and I expect her to feel remorse for murder or even attempted murder. If she did not take responsability for what she did I would find it extremely out of character and an example of bad characterization and villainization. Fortunately Remeder is not doing that.

P.S.

I edited my previous post with more on this argument.

EDIT: From the beginning (like from ISSUE ONE) Remeder estabilished Rogue felt terrible about Xavier's death and partially blamed Wanda for it, she also did not consider her worthy of Xavier's legacy (all understandable sentiments, given the previous events they had been involved with). That's why Rogue chose to "give Wanda an hard time" and there was good reason for her to act that way. Remeder did not make Wanda seem like a saint at all. Wanda did some pretty terrible mistakes during last arc for example (going along with the twins plan even though it was so risky?) and paid for it dearly. Wanda is portrayed by Remeder as more insecure than Rogue and as someone who needs a man and is less independent than Rogue, for example. Point is you should try to be fair with all the characters in the book not just over-emphasize whatever happens to the one you like the most.

No she doesn't remember what she did, she was told what she did by Wolverine...stop making stuff up it annoys me. Also Scarlet Witch's characterization is off in Uncanny Avengers too but it seems nobody cares. In the comics Wanda has already been redeemed hardly anyone that matters still has vitriol towards Wanda about what she did during House of M, the only ones that still resent Wanda and hold her accountable are outside the comics and are mostly X-Men fans, and no matter how much crap Remender or Marvel releases and no matter how popular she becomes after Avengers 2 this is not going to change.

[dragonmp93]

This is kind of the general thing that has been getting mis-understood for so long; just for me with what I have been saying for most of my posts for the the past 2 years that I can remember writing is NOT forgive her Now, BUT let the story that is going on right now play out. By what I have read since Children's Crusades, to AvX, to Uncanny Avengers and Now to AXIS, Marvel has be Very Slow playing this story out for Wanda, both Milking All It Can out of the HoM story and then just like they did keeping her out for so long from the books, now they are taking their time to bring her back.

The point is at this point, all I am saying is; What the Story is Going on Now, Let it Play Out!

That will be the Rest of UA, All of AXIS and the aftermath after that leading Threw Avengers 2.

Their is no answer from any single or few singles issues that has happen, but it is a long process that I see Marvel as taking their time in with her to Tell A Story, that is the Core of it that I See as a Wanda fan and I believe other Wanda Fans see as well. Give the Story time to Play itself out and don't call fool when the story is still being told and saying that is it.

Let it play out, after with how long Wanda fans have had to wait for this, that is really all we want to see happen and are willing to wait for that, at least that is for me.

Well, that's the problem; that some people act like if her arc is already over and that the X-fans are just being petty about the whole thing.

[Rochedalaix]

Well, that's the problem; that some people act like if her arc is already over and that the X-fans are just being petty about the whole thing.

Her redemption arc is already over, no one in the comics holds Wanda accountable for her actions only the X-Men fans do, so as far as the comics are concerned she is already redeemed, it is only outside of comics where the vitriol for Wanda's actions still remain and as far as I'm concerned no matter how much brainwashing Marvel attempts with Avengers 2 and AXIS that is not going to change my stance and I won't be forgiving Wanda.