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  1. #31

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    Xavier was the only one that mattered.

    So long as you don't kill Xavier, you're fine.
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  2. #32
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juggernaut Punch View Post
    So long as you don't kill Xavier, you're fine.
    I want Logan to wear this on a T-shirt during their next mission

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by PretenderNX01 View Post
    There aren't a lot of long standing gay characters. Killing endangered species is usually frowned upon.
    Despite that Marvel killed Northstar three times that month (the other two being in alternate continuities like X-Men The End and the new Age of Apocalypse).

    There should have been some sort of in story thing since as I recall the other characters in X-Men didn't all know Northstar was back the next issue (and under mind control).
    Thanks for the reminder, I had completely forgotten about Northstar being killed all month long! That was pretty brutal
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  4. #34
    Houndmarks Subliminal's Avatar
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    I just re-read those issues of Wolverine, trying to remember JP's relationship with Dani and Shan after the recent events in X-Factor. Funny that this didn't really age well and might be considered a hate crime now. But the real question is how did Wolverine even touch Northstar? With the movies showing what fighting a speedster is really like with Quicksilver... and Northstar being immensely faster. If Kitty could phase with a thought and un-phase to hit Wolverine with a stick. Even if Wolverine teleported, Northstar's ridiculously fast reflexes and speed should have moved him to safety easily. Unless, the plot needed a specific gay character to die? Happy Pride!

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Silvermoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackalsIII View Post
    Thanks for the reminder, I had completely forgotten about Northstar being killed all month long! That was pretty brutal
    Yeah part of me wonders, who was the person behind the scenes who enjoyed seeing Jean Paul get murdered over and over again was.

    At least there are more LGBTIQ characters now. Or at least gay and bi characters, marvel could still do better with trans people and gay women especially

  6. #36
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    I think that the writer mentioned that Northstar was going to come back almost immediately and just because he was gay, Northstar, shouldn't be the reason that he couldn't be killed like anybody else...he wasn't killed because he was gay but the writer believed that fact shouldn't shield him from it either...so in the end it ended up being not that big of a thing to many...

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member Silvermoth's Avatar
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    To many straight people maybe. And it was weird how much they seemed to delight in violence against an LGBTIQ character, one of the few in comics at the time, over and over again. Plus, I feel like if it was a straight character it would have been handled with a more heroic end or something. So not a great idea

  8. #38
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    I wasn't commenting on the circumstances of his death only that the writer wasn't killing him because he was gay but felt that being gay shouldn't make him off limits to being killed either...

  9. #39
    Extraordinary Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grinningdemon View Post
    There's a scene where Rachel is basically at his mercy and he's thinking about how much she's like Jean...there was definitely a sinister undercurrent there.
    I think he was dragging her by the hair even though I remember his thoughts being conflicting like "no please don't do it..." like he knew that side of himself, I'm paraphrasing. I actually enjoyed that run and it was one of the last I read before the beginning of House of M was leaving a bad taste in my mouth, no offense to fans. Anyway, like I said, though I liked that run but what Logan was portrayed as doing well ... I understood he was brainwashed but the way he didn't seem to care about NS and didn't help him when he could have... eh. I also felt if it was a different character it would have been a bigger deal. Same with Ray when you think of it. But that was the end of the run so if no one wanted to pick up on it... well...

  10. #40
    Astonishing Member Silvermoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    I wasn't commenting on the circumstances of his death only that the writer wasn't killing him because he was gay but felt that being gay shouldn't make him off limits to being killed either...
    That makes sense if there’s more than one gay character. But it’s like killing off the only black character. Not great

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member Uncanny X-Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvermoth View Post
    To many straight people maybe. And it was weird how much they seemed to delight in violence against an LGBTIQ character, one of the few in comics at the time, over and over again. Plus, I feel like if it was a straight character it would have been handled with a more heroic end or something. So not a great idea
    I think it was mentioned at the time that it was coincidental that the same character was killed in 3 different books at the same time, and frankly both The End and AoA killed off a bunch of different people really.

    As a gay man I don't really support any preferential treatment for LGBTIQ characters when it comes to getting killed off (and then inevitably resurrected): Northstar is an X-Man and should be allowed to get offed as much as his fellow straight teammates without people crying foul.

    I always thought killing then resurrecting characters was terribly stupid, but as it's a pretty common trope in comics (without counting the recent Resurrection protocols) I don't see why Jean-Paul should be treated any differently just because he's gay, I find that borderline offensive actually.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member Silvermoth's Avatar
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    As I said, because he was one of the only gay characters at the time. Basically by killing him off they made a heterosexual only universe which obviously is not a great look. It’s different these days because there’s more gay characters. It’s not about gay characters aren’t allowed to be killed off, it’s about how revelling in his murder paints a bad image, especially for people who enjoy seeing gay characters get killed or for young LGBTIQ looking for representation and only seeing themselves get killed off to make the straight character look bad ass

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncanny X-Man View Post
    I always thought killing then resurrecting characters was terribly stupid, but as it's a pretty common trope in comics (without counting the recent Resurrection protocols) I don't see why Jean-Paul should be treated any differently just because he's gay, I find that borderline offensive actually.
    For the same reason, I wonder how much the Kyle and Jean-Paul marriage is like an untouchable third rail that no writer wants to poke at, for fear of backlash, so even writers who have zero interest in writing their relationship, sort of gloss over it, instead of putting any couple's drama into the relationship. (Given Northstar's prickly nature, it could even be said that the drama-free nature of their marriage is a touch out of character!) As long as they were Marvel's only gay couple, they felt even more untouchable, although the addition of others, like Wiccan and Hulkling, Rictor and Shatterstar, Hercules and Noh-Varr, Iceman and his booty call of the day, gives some 'cover.'

  14. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    For the same reason, I wonder how much the Kyle and Jean-Paul marriage is like an untouchable third rail that no writer wants to poke at, for fear of backlash, so even writers who have zero interest in writing their relationship, sort of gloss over it, instead of putting any couple's drama into the relationship. (Given Northstar's prickly nature, it could even be said that the drama-free nature of their marriage is a touch out of character!) As long as they were Marvel's only gay couple, they felt even more untouchable, although the addition of others, like Wiccan and Hulkling, Rictor and Shatterstar, Hercules and Noh-Varr, Iceman and his booty call of the day, gives some 'cover.'
    There's never been a point where Northstar and Kyle were Marvel's only queer couple; Wiccan and Hulking and Karolina and Xavin both predate them. They did have Marvel's first gay marriage; the most focus they'd gotten as a couple prior to the current X-Factor run was the wedding arc in Liu's Astonishing X-Men, and that was hardly drama free. Everything else in the 616 has been cameos, and even then Kyle's insecurities got a nod. Let's not pretend a queer couple having less than a year's worth of issues where they get to be happy and domestic as part of the team dynamic is some mark of special treatment.
    Last edited by Anduinel; 06-13-2021 at 11:51 PM.

  15. #45
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvermoth View Post
    That makes sense if there’s more than one gay character. But it’s like killing off the only black character. Not great
    I didn't know Northstar was the only gay character in 616 at the time. I thought Wiccan was around as well, but honestly I don't know for sure. I can see why it is distressing.
    You brought back Wolverine

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