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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    Honestly I'm supporter of new 52 as in theory. But all of this, all this...just shows how bad planned this whole COMPANY is.

    I'm someone who started around Brightest Day and I know that the universe back then was messed up. I was so happy when they announced a gigantic fresh start because now I didn't have to jump from stupid events onto another one.

    However when it all came out, there was no REBOOT in the actual name of it. The time line was messed up and "what happened/what didn't" was so complicated. I still don't get Damian in a 5 years scale Batworld.

    What they had to do back then was to reboot it all to moot. Both Batman and GL included. (Let them wrap their story -it took a one more year for Morrison and Johns, anyway) I would have read them from the beginning, Dick as Robin, Roy as Speedy... I am down with that. They'd time skip in a few years or in gimmicky events, anyway.

    But they didn't. THEY MESSED IT UP.

    From Nu52, I started with Batman, Wonder Woman, Superman, Teen Titans and The Flash. I think Batman is still pre-flashpoint, there is almost no change in it. I wasn't confused other than time line. WW was problematic at parts but I love mythology and the book delivered a very needed fresh take on the character.

    I don't like new 52 Superman. That's it. Power scales mean little to me. I look at the characterization and I don't like the new Superfamily, sorry. Though I'm comfortable with SM/WW.

    They dropped the ball on Teen Titans. It's bad. It needs a re-Flashpoint on its own. The characters are wrong. It's all wrong. New numbering doesn't change that.

    The Flash was going on it's own way until they introduced Wests & TT gave away Bart's origin and the book went downhill from there. (it wasn't stellar prior either but it was readable at least) Now Flashfamily IS A MESS. I can't read the book without taking a pill. Hopefully I don't pay for it now, that's what I keep telling myself to calm down at least.

    Besides Batman line what's so successful in new 52? Nothing. They are either same or worse.

    I wish they just seriously stood down and decided where every important character fits at the beginning. Like say, if Wally was to be THIS abomination why did they torture his fans for nothing for 7 years? If he was to be Kid Flash in main time line, why Bart was introduced at all? It was more than fair to push Bart to limbo instead if were going to get this.

    Now they are doing a Zero Hour to address all these...Why? These things, continuity stuff confuse me, I don't like following it, I don't care about it either. These stuff are what turns me away from the comic books. These are the reasons why it took me years to pick up one properly.

    It really feels like DC is run by 12 years olds, not knowing what the f** they are doing and just acting on whim. This is so pathetic.
    Most of your problems boil down to Teen Titans and that's squarely on the shoulders of Scott Lobdell. Also, you got your wish (kind of) - they rebooted Teen Titans AGAIN two months ago from #1 again with a different team because of how badly it was mishandled.

    I don't see very many other complaints with the actual New 52 in this post other than the valid criticisms of Teen Titans, which DC is certainly culpable for but I don't hold them ultimately responsible. I've been mostly fine with New 52, mostly because the Bat-verse was mostly untouched as you said (and like you said, the only downside is the compressed timeline not making sense.)

  2. #62
    the cloud surfer He-Kal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by troynos View Post
    And the end of the New 52 has started...
    Maybe--Maybe not. Honestly, I would be happy if the multiverse was established again and we still had the new 52 as an alternate universe and the original universe as the focus (like Elseworlds one shots,etc...).

  3. #63
    Nostalgia Fanwanker Pharozonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Well one thing that has clearly made improvements is DC attributes towards diversity. From Val Zod in Earth 2, to Cyborg being made a founding member of the Justice League, to Wally West, these events wouldn't be possible pre-52. That was one of the major problems of the pre-52, it was built during a world where racism and sexism were common practice and this entail infiltrated into it's comics. And while DC made slow strides on the forefront when it came to diversity, it still had it's hands tied due to the history of DC that was tailored made towards white male readers. The new 52 allows the world to be revamped based on modern society, not past relics that was filled with racism and sexism.

    So yes, the new 52 definitely have some advantages, and one of it's key advantages is now with no continuity they can remake the world with how our society actually looks like, and not what it use to be from the 1940's.
    Val Zod = positive change
    Wally West and Cyborg = negative change
    "In any time, there will always be a need for heroes." - the Time Trapper, Legion of Superheroes #61(1994)

    "What can I say? I guess I outgrew maturity.." - Bob Chipman

  4. #64
    Astonishing Member RobinFan4880's Avatar
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    Those are not the Pre-New 52 characters, those are New 52 characters from the Multiverse.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Well one thing that has clearly made improvements is DC attributes towards diversity. From Val Zod in Earth 2, to Cyborg being made a founding member of the Justice League, to Wally West, these events wouldn't be possible pre-52. That was one of the major problems of the pre-52, it was built during a world where racism and sexism were common practice and this entail infiltrated into it's comics. And while DC made slow strides on the forefront when it came to diversity, it still had it's hands tied due to the history of DC that was tailored made towards white male readers. The new 52 allows the world to be revamped based on modern society, not past relics that was filled with racism and sexism.

    So yes, the new 52 definitely have some advantages, and one of it's key advantages is now with no continuity they can remake the world with how our society actually looks like, and not what it use to be from the 1940's.
    Having Val Zod in Earth 2 is good Making Cyborg something he never was and taking out a original character like Martian Manhunter is not. Cyborg has and should always be a Teen Titan. As for Wally. LOL Don't get me started with that ridiculousness.

    Forcing Diversity onto characters that have been around for over 40 years is NOT the way to do it. Diversity should be a natural flow like Val Zod not making Iconic character into something they are not.

  6. #66
    Astonishing Member AlexanderLuthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSTowle View Post
    Why is this being treated as something special, aren't we all aware Multiversity is going on? Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I believe all of those pictures would seem to fit into a world already described in the lead-up. I'll be happy if we end up having titles set in the different universes (obviously not the main titles, but side titles) but I fully expect the current universe to remain intact with perhaps a few nips and tucks.

    I am curious though, to those who so vehemently defend the New 52 as the gold standard: what exactly is worth defending that we didn't have pre-New 52? Other than enjoying Wonder Woman more than I did previously (though if the same creative team was on the book, I'd probably be enjoying it in a Post- or even Pre-Crisis DCU as the story relies very little on the extended universe) I see very little that stands out as being either better than it used to be or something we couldn't have had with any other continuity going on.

    Is this just pushback from the overwhelming negative reaction to the New 52 (to the point where they had to segregate threads complaining about it into 1 thread because it dominated the DC boards)? I understand loving your comics and reflexively defending them, but I just can't see any logical reasons that the little bit of good we've gained couldn't have been gained without the reboot. I'm fine if they don't alter the New 52 in the slightest (though there are multiple decisions I'm sure they'd like to take back, and history that contradicts itself that they could clarify), but I see nothing special about it either. The concepts are basically the same, and writers/artists are far more important to my enjoyment of a book than what happened 7 years ago under a different creative team.
    The reception to the New 52 hasn't been negative. Sales are up 25% since the reboot on a year over year from around 23 million units to 29 million. The negativity you think you feel is because you are in this board where people (myself included) are a lot different than normal fans. People here really care about red trunks, and Donna Troy, and Wally West and on and on. 99% of people who buy comics really don't. I have been reading DC Comics since at least 1978. I was really excited by COIE because it was needed at the time - things had gotten out of hand with fifty different Kryptonians running around. I loved a lot of the post-COIE DCU for quite some time, but by 2010 it needed a reboot in the worst way as it had become stale and dated. That's why I defend the New 52...which hasn't been perfect by any means, but I think anyone saying they should have started from scratch hasn't thought through the implications of that
    Last edited by AlexanderLuthor; 09-24-2014 at 09:05 AM.

  7. #67

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    DC just give the people that continue to bitch about The New 52 a Pre New 52 book so we don't have to hear from them anymore.

    It's getting old.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinFan4880 View Post
    Those are not the Pre-New 52 characters, those are New 52 characters from the Multiverse.
    Looks like Superman to me. If he looks like a duck, Walks like a duck and acts like a Duck then chances are he is a duck unlike the New 52 Superman.

  9. #69
    Mighty Member Waterfall's Avatar
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    Only ignorant people call Wally West change progressive. People should read the books before commenting on these stuff. Wally West's characterization is now more racist then ever been. I wish instead we got Danica Williams or Jenni Ognats as Kid Flash.


    Quote Originally Posted by Andrex View Post
    Most of your problems boil down to Teen Titans and that's squarely on the shoulders of Scott Lobdell. Also, you got your wish (kind of) - they rebooted Teen Titans AGAIN two months ago from #1 again with a different team because of how badly it was mishandled.

    I don't see very many other complaints with the actual New 52 in this post other than the valid criticisms of Teen Titans, which DC is certainly culpable for but I don't hold them ultimately responsible. I've been mostly fine with New 52, mostly because the Bat-verse was mostly untouched as you said (and like you said, the only downside is the compressed timeline not making sense.)
    Last time I checked they are out of that book and they still have the same origins from there. Numbering doesn't solve anything.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexrules View Post
    Having Val Zod in Earth 2 is good Making Cyborg something he never was and taking out a original character like Martian Manhunter is not. Cyborg has and should always be a Teen Titan. As for Wally. LOL Don't get me started with that ridiculousness.

    Forcing Diversity onto characters that have been around for over 40 years is NOT the way to do it. Diversity should be a natural flow like Val Zod not making Iconic character into something they are not.
    Val Zod is a new character. Johns still need to do something with cyborg on JL, he is more the computer guy than his own character.
    well Wally was really unfortunate, he become a racist trope

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Odd Man View Post
    Whether its a two month crossover event or a sign that major change is coming, I am happy either way. Didn't DC say before that the two month event would be a love letter to DC fans? This certainly qualifies!
    If a harkening back to pre-52 is a love letter, then what is post-52?

    a) Death Threat
    b) Suicide Note
    c) Ransom Request
    d) Mea Culpa
    Currently Reading: A handful of series that will be canceled soon.

  12. #72
    Veteran Green Lantern Sirzechs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexrules View Post
    Having Val Zod in Earth 2 is good Making Cyborg something he never was and taking out a original character like Martian Manhunter is not. Cyborg has and should always be a Teen Titan. As for Wally. LOL Don't get me started with that ridiculousness.

    Forcing Diversity onto characters that have been around for over 40 years is NOT the way to do it. Diversity should be a natural flow like Val Zod not making Iconic character into something they are not.
    Right because every Titan can move up and Cyborg should be the eternal babysitter lol, some time if you guys were actually fans or just want to see the guy suffer, Cyborg being on the league is damn good move, even Tim moved on his own leaving cyborg with the teen titans.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason the slasher guy View Post
    DC just give the people that continue to bitch about The New 52 a Pre New 52 book so we don't have to hear from them anymore.

    It's getting old.
    It would be the smart thing for DC to do. I have been saying since the start of this whole cluster$%&* to do such a thing.

  14. #74
    Nostalgia Fanwanker Pharozonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirzechs View Post
    Right because every Titan can move up and Cyborg should be the eternal babysitter lol, some time if you guys were actually fans or just want to see the guy suffer, Cyborg being on the league is damn good move, even Tim moved on his own leaving cyborg with the teen titans.
    I don't really care for Cyborg one way or another. I think the Martian Manhunter is a much more interesting character and should be a JL founder.
    "In any time, there will always be a need for heroes." - the Time Trapper, Legion of Superheroes #61(1994)

    "What can I say? I guess I outgrew maturity.." - Bob Chipman

  15. #75
    Mighty Member Waterfall's Avatar
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    Meh, this is going to end up as calling closing curtains on pre-Flashpoint universe.

    Honestly, it would have been better if they just opened a Ultimate type line for the fans of them. Everyone wins.

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