New Avengers #24 Review (w/spoilers)

[KOSLOX]

If they're going to do it, for the purpose of saving your universe, wouldn't that be the most efficient and effective way? As opposed to engaging in slaughter for slaughter's sake, extending your time on the other Earth, and allowing for a greater chance for something to go wrong with your plan....

It's efficient sure (this conversation makes me feel sick), but why begrudge monsters their fun if they are going to kill them anyway.

[AcesX1X]

It's efficient sure (this conversation makes me feel sick), but why begrudge monsters their fun if they are going to kill them anyway.

because namor is not a monster even if he has to play one. that is the lesson hickman is trying to teach you i think.

[KOSLOX]

not a monster even if he has to play one

I see that as a distinction without a difference. Oh well I'll see this through, but I hope this get rebooted because this isn't the type of MU I want to read about indefinitely.

[PlanetaryDevastation]

Wakandans are way to resourceful to simply be 3rd World refugees for generations to come.

True. I imagine most countries would want them to live with them. They're always looking out for intelligent people looking for a home. Maybe. In the Cold War they were.

[vitruvian]

It's efficient sure (this conversation makes me feel sick), but why begrudge monsters their fun if they are going to kill them anyway.

For one, for the last point.... every moment you spend hanging out killing random people on a world you're about to blow up anyway is 1) wasted time, and 2) another moment in which some opposition you don't know about might be able to mobilize and mess with your whole plan.

For another, part of the point is that Namor is not gratuitously cruel, at least not most of the time. Is there a difference between executing somebody with a single shot to the head or torturing them to death for hours? You could say no, the person ends up dead either way, but that's not the way anybody really looks at the matter. I see no reason why pain and suffering prior to death shouldn't be taken into account for whole populations in the same way they are when we judge the severity of a homicide charge.

[Mahes]

because namor is not a monster even if he has to play one. that is the lesson hickman is trying to teach you i think.

Yep, Namor will play the role of a monster if needed if it allows for the survival of their loved ones.

Btw, anyone read Invaders today? Interesting dialogue between Namor and Steve about the Illuminati. No punches thrown. Lol.

[Juggernaut Punch]

For one, for the last point.... every moment you spend hanging out killing random people on a world you're about to blow up anyway is 1) wasted time, and 2) another moment in which some opposition you don't know about might be able to mobilize and mess with your whole plan.

For another, part of the point is that Namor is not gratuitously cruel, at least not most of the time. Is there a difference between executing somebody with a single shot to the head or torturing them to death for hours? You could say no, the person ends up dead either way, but that's not the way anybody really looks at the matter. I see no reason why pain and suffering prior to death shouldn't be taken into account for whole populations in the same way they are when we judge the severity of a homicide charge.

It's a moot point. Namor isn't in control of the Cabal, he never was. He couldn't stop them from butchering people if he tried.

[XPac]

I see that as a distinction without a difference.

The scene itself shows the difference.

Namor is there to do a job. He's actually saving lives. He's saving entire universes. The rest are two to an extent... but for them it's also sport.

And it's also a classic villains mistake that tend to bite them in the behind. As mentioned earlier, if nothing else being surgical about it equates to efficiency. Playing around often creates openings where thing can fall apart. It's why villains often lose.

Namor is being more humane about it, but he's also trying to be smarter about it.

[DrTraveler]

There needs to be more books about this stuff.

Like what the heck is Swan thinking right now? She doesn't seem to be one that follows... is she currently thinking "where the hell is this planets Manifold?"

There are so many "teams" right now...

Illuminati
Cabal
Avengers
The various avengers that have broken off (Thor/Hyperion, AIM, ect)
Team DOOM

That it feels wrong to tell a bunch of half stories right now. We just had an "illuminati book" that didn't have Strange, BB, Beast, Captain Britain, Banner, ect in it at all. We havent' really seen Swan in ages and she was like the focus on the book for a long time.

So much going on, I don't know how Hickman wraps it up by May in a satisfactory way.

I understand why the Hickman Avengers books are going to ship "aggressively" now. I totally agree that it appears we are seeing splinters of teams and factions here.

I have to go back and reread Avengers in light of this. I'd assumed that Steve's faction was working with SHIELD to hunt the Illuminati, but I no longer agree with that. No way Steve would have stood by and let Wakanda fall, and no way he'd allow them to maintain control of Wakanda. This issue seems to imply that the Illuminati are running active missions against the Cabal, and by extension that SHIELD and Thanos are in cahoots.

[Victor Freeman]

The scene itself shows the difference.

Namor is there to do a job. He's actually saving lives. He's saving entire universes. The rest are two to an extent... but for them it's also sport.

And it's also a classic villains mistake that tend to bite them in the behind. As mentioned earlier, if nothing else being surgical about it equates to efficiency. Playing around often creates openings where thing can fall apart. It's why villains often lose.

Namor is being more humane about it, but he's also trying to be smarter about it.

Really. Wakanda would disagree. He's a monster and he was wrong.

[Trident]

The scene itself shows the difference.

Namor is there to do a job. He's actually saving lives. He's saving entire universes. The rest are two to an extent... but for them it's also sport.

And it's also a classic villains mistake that tend to bite them in the behind. As mentioned earlier, if nothing else being surgical about it equates to efficiency. Playing around often creates openings where thing can fall apart. It's why villains often lose.

Namor is being more humane about it, but he's also trying to be smarter about it.

To much Truth!

[XPac]

Really. Wakanda would disagree. He's a monster and he was wrong.

Wakanda wouldn't be disagreeing if it was destroyed along with 2 other entire universes during the last few incursions. So even they, as badly as they got screwed, are at least a BIT better off because of Namors actions.

[PlanetaryDevastation]

I understand why the Hickman Avengers books are going to ship "aggressively" now. I totally agree that it appears we are seeing splinters of teams and factions here.

I have to go back and reread Avengers in light of this. I'd assumed that Steve's faction was working with SHIELD to hunt the Illuminati, but I no longer agree with that. No way Steve would have stood by and let Wakanda fall, and no way he'd allow them to maintain control of Wakanda. This issue seems to imply that the Illuminati are running active missions against the Cabal, and by extension that SHIELD and Thanos are in cahoots.

There no way Hawkeye, Captain Marvel and Susan would work with SHIELD if that meant helping Thanos destroy worlds.

[yet another]

Namor still has one of those things. THough I imagine Thanos can replicate any tech he needs to at this point. He's probably the only person I'd cosider smarter than Doom or Reed.

Starlin's Thanos perhaps yes, but I don't think Hickman's version is that smart. Maximus seems to be the brains (tech guy) of the Cabal.

[divad4686]

Really. Wakanda would disagree. He's a monster and he was wrong.

If it wasn't for Namor, the whole 616 universe would not exist anymore, so even now, wakanda should the thanking Namor.