New Avengers #24 Review (w/spoilers)

[DeamonSnow]

Thanos lives to kill to pay tribute to his on-off girlfriend Death, might as well tell him to call her up and tell her that her skank ass ain't worth a dime. There is no good sense in that course of action. Namor was willing to do what had to be done, but I don't think he relishes murdering people. Terrax on the other hand does necro puppetry and Thanos makes people beg to die so they don't have to watch him kill their youngest proteges before he kills them. Namor is a pragmatist but he's not a sadist. He takes no joy in senseless slaughter and torture.

As I said a few pages back, Namor wanted a Seal Team Six, he ended up with a gang of SuperMax psychos instead.

I find it hilarious that Mr uber badass I'm a Monster is getting an up close look at REAL monsters and he is now disgusted by them.
After 8 months of killing worlds he is fully committed.
So unless he wants to star in Terrax's next puppet show he had better Sack Up and start enjoying the slaughter.
Also no more stupid thoughts about managing/controlling the Cabal.

[jackolover]

Assuming everything that guy said is the gospel truth, honestly I'm not sure why T'Challa is trying to pay back the world with black mail or whatever. According to the guy, sacrificing Wakanda saved the world. You can't entirely fault the rest of the world for that if it's an accurate description of events.

Wakanda is in the world too, so it's not like they're in a whole lot better shape if the world were theoretically to end. I get them being upset since they're screwed either way... but he ended up risking an aweful lot to get the rest of the world to choke on their shame. Whatever that means.

Oh, so there isn't a scene where Panther takes the bombs? It's just heresay?

[jackolover]

Quite plausibly that television audience crying was the only reaction of note, especially if everyone elsewhere was preoccupied with some greater crisis.



Was T'Challa actually trying to acquire planetbusters to use them on Earth-616?

What did he say?

I am going on what other posters stated about what happened in the book. I haven't got my copy yet.

[rukkis]

Oh, so there isn't a scene where Panther takes the bombs? It's just heresay?

Spoiler below since you haven't read the book. You seem like you dont care but just in case.
spoilers:

BP and Shuri attempt to steal the bombs in book but they are stopped

end of spoilers

[PocketfulofKryptonite]

Oh, so there isn't a scene where Panther takes the bombs? It's just heresay?

He doesn't get the bombs, Maximus has a force field up around them that fries one of Shuri's kamikaze commandos, he drops it to let Proxima through but they don't get the bombs, he then blows up the main access tunnel to the basement BP was keeping them in.

Also looking at the Mapmakers hologram Doom has, it looks like only some worlds are parallel and linked to each other, so each defeated incursion may save that universe but it's like removing a ball from a Newton's cradle so inevitably each defeated incursion means the remaining worlds are set to collide sooner. It's also pretty much the same as what's happening in Multiversity, each world vibrates on a different harmonic frequency so the worlds are like musical notes but the scale is shrinking.

[XPac]

Thanos lives to kill to pay tribute to his on-off girlfriend Death, might as well tell him to call her up and tell her that her skank ass ain't worth a dime. There is no good sense in that course of action. Namor was willing to do what had to be done, but I don't think he relishes murdering people. Terrax on the other hand does necro puppetry and Thanos makes people beg to die so they don't have to watch him kill their youngest proteges before he kills them. Namor is a pragmatist but he's not a sadist. He takes no joy in senseless slaughter and torture.

As I said a few pages back, Namor wanted a Seal Team Six, he ended up with a gang of SuperMax psychos instead.

In some ways this is probably better though. As we're seeing with Namor, this sort of thing is a pretty heavy burden for anyone who isn't a sadist. It's possible it would take a toll even on someone like Doom after awhile.

[XPac]

I am going on what other posters stated about what happened in the book. I haven't got my copy yet.

T'Challa was TRYING to take them, though like everything else the Illuminati does these days it was an epic fail.

The intent was from what he stated was to blackmail people with them. Beyond that, it's not entirely clear what he had in mind. Really the whole thing sounded childish and petty, and I don't entirely understand it at all.

[Trident]

We haven't seen what the Illuminati have been up to yet, so we simply cannot pass judgement on what progress they've made during the 8 months at this point.

At this point I think we can. Several people spent years humming this same tune only for them to selfishly spend their last days doing what they wanted to do. They didn't even bother to let the rest of the world know " Hey the world was going end in a few hours. You probably should spend your last day with the ones you care about or doing what you want or even trying to succeed where we failed" but no instead they sat around doing nothing. In 8 months until proven otherwise this only goal was probably try to stop the Cabal or figure out ways to try to stop the Cabal. That's as much as they are going to get from me until prove otherwise.

Note the saying " Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me." Don't be the fool.

[rukkis]

T'Challa was TRYING to take them, though like everything else the Illuminati does these days it was an epic fail.

The intent was from what he stated was to blackmail people with them. Beyond that, it's not entirely clear what he had in mind. Really the whole thing sounded childish and petty, and I don't entirely understand it at all.

I think the intent was to blackmail the Cabal into leaving Wakanda and setting up shop somewhere else. It seems seeing Wakanda get destroyed has shifted his priorities. He failed to protect his people and let down his ancestors by not pulling the trigger, and eventually that led to Wakanda being destroyed. Now his primary focus is on retaking and rebuilding by whatever means necessary. He is willing to sacrifice his morality now by letting the Cabal run wild, as long as they do it out of a different base. Although I still doubt he would be willing to pull the trigger himself, but out of site, out of mind.

[XPac]

I think the intent was to blackmail the Cabal into leaving Wakanda and setting up shop somewhere else. It seems seeing Wakanda get destroyed has shifted his priorities. He failed to protect his people and let down his ancestors by not pulling the trigger, and eventually that led to Wakanda being destroyed. Now his primary focus is on retaking and rebuilding by whatever means necessary. He is willing to sacrifice his morality now by letting the Cabal run wild, as long as they do it out of a different base. Although I still doubt he would be willing to pull the trigger himself, but out of site, out of mind.

If that's his plan, then honestly I would have liked to see T'Challa try and blackmail Thanos with the bombs. It might work had Namor actually been the one in charge, but not Thanos.

What's T'Challa going to do if Thanos doesn't cooperate? Threaten to use the bomb on earth? Withhold the bomb and threaten to allow the universe to be destroyed by an incursion?

[robreedwrites]

He doesn't get the bombs, Maximus has a force field up around them that fries one of Shuri's kamikaze commandos, he drops it to let Proxima through but they don't get the bombs, he then blows up the main access tunnel to the basement BP was keeping them in.

Also looking at the Mapmakers hologram Doom has, it looks like only some worlds are parallel and linked to each other, so each defeated incursion may save that universe but it's like removing a ball from a Newton's cradle so inevitably each defeated incursion means the remaining worlds are set to collide sooner. It's also pretty much the same as what's happening in Multiversity, each world vibrates on a different harmonic frequency so the worlds are like musical notes but the scale is shrinking.

This caught my eye as well. The part of me that is crazy is now betting everything on a crossover coming out of this. :P

[neohuey89]

But that's still saving lives. And you also have to consider if everyone dies in an the present incursion, someone stopping the next one won't really but a possibility.

I just find it bizarre that so many try and trivialize the importance of what the Cabal is doing. If they don't stop the incursions everyone in the universe dies. No one can be saved later if everyone dies today. So even if someone else solves the problem, they were only able to do it because they weren't killed in an incursion which was prevented by the Cabal. So everyone NOT dying is a pretty darn important element in solving the problem. The value of not being dead really shouldn't even need to be explained as often as it needs to in this thread.

I never said that the Cabal shouldn't do what they are doing, BUT if no one figures out how to stop the incursions then it is all for nothing, because eventually everything will die. I didn't make this up. Incursions will keep happening until there is nothing. The thing that's really going to save everything is stopping the incursions period.

[XPac]

I never said that the Cabal shouldn't do what they are doing, BUT if no one figures out how to stop the incursions then it is all for nothing, because eventually everything will die. I didn't make this up. Incursions will keep happening until there is nothing. The thing that's really going to save everything is stopping the incursions period.

Yeah, but to argue that the only ones really saving any lives are the people who solve the incursion is untrue. The people keeping everyone alive UNTIL that happens deserve the credit for that too.

As an example, if someone gets shot YES it's the surgeon that removes the bullet which ultimately resolves the problem. But the EMT that arrived on the scene and kept that person alive are JUST as responsible for saving the life of the person too. Without the EMT's the person would be dead. They may not have removed the bullet, but they get credit for saving the persons life.

And without Cabal, everyone would be dead. Because of that, they get credit for saving peoples lives too. To argue that no one else is really saving anyones life is short sighted. The Cabal stopping the incursions and preventing countless lives from being lost is a necessary part of that process.

[Mr MajestiK]

Namor saying the Cabal was unmanageable is what led me to believe that he wanted to 'manage' how they destroyed worlds. Namor likes his genocide to be hands off, just plant the bomb and run. Usually the word manage implies some form of authority/control. I'm saying that he should never have believed for a moment that this Cabal would be Manageable. He now realises he was wrong and out of fear he wants help (the fear comes from when he states that the Cabal are starting to sense his hesitation).
He tells Doom that he needs him,that together they could "stand against such... common behavior".
This statement shows me that in his fevered brain he believes that Namor+Doom equals control of the Cabal. STUPID. An utter moron, even with Doom he is NOT controlling Thanos.

Also the "Kristoff. Can you..." panel was Namor begging imho.

We agree on something, Namor should have gone to Doom. I don't think you can go to psychopaths for help and then be Shocked when they predictably act like Psychopaths.
Now that he has gone down this rabbit hole it is time to be committed. No BS about the horror of it all becoming overwhelming, no BS about hesitating. He was a bigshot laughing at the illuminati so no sympathy for him from me.
If the purpose of his visit was to tell Doom what happened so that he could find another solution then I wouldn't be so hard on him. However the on panel reason for the visit was Stupid.
The point I was making is that Namor is an amoral idiot.
PocketfulofKryptonite Namor's posture after Kristoff leads me to believe he was desperate and desperately tried to ask Kristoff for help (begging imho).

Also where the hell is Tony? I wonder what he is doing, getting drunk or working solo to solve this or maybe someone captured him.

Excellent posts.

[XPac]

I find it hilarious that Mr uber badass I'm a Monster is getting an up close look at REAL monsters and he is now disgusted by them.
After 8 months of killing worlds he is fully committed.
So unless he wants to star in Terrax's next puppet show he had better Sack Up and start enjoying the slaughter.
Also no more stupid thoughts about managing/controlling the Cabal.

I really don't see why Namor has to commit to anything more than what he's already doing... what absolutely needs to be done.

He doesn't necessarily need to become Thanos simply because circumstances require his assistance. Does it make it harder for Namor? Certainly... but ultimately Namor is who he is.