Sensation #7 Preview

[kidstandout]

society has to stop excusing double standards in behavior period.

[brettc1]

no problem in finding that hot, but me and many women feel repressed that we can't dress more confortable because guys will go out of control. I studied at a school that was hot as hell, but the principal didn't wanted girls to show no even a bit of the leg or boys would lose attention.

Which is perhaps why there are some studies to show that boys perform better academically in all-boys schools.

There are disadvantages of course. The universe is all checks and balances.

I am not unsympathetic. But I cannot ignore certain inconvenient facts. Certainly in regard to how women are perceived our education systems and mass media often work in opposition.

[brettc1]

But it is society that says all the time that men can't help theirselves: girls cover yourselves, don't walk alone at night at the street, 100 tips to avoid sexual assault.
i have my right to show skin, guys have their right to show skin. what has to stop is how society excuse male behavior.

If we are talking about assault, there is no excuse.

However, the biggest part of this problem comes from the fact that men can almost always physically outmatch women.

If you accept that men have greater physical power than women as the norm, and that both men and women have comparable sexual drives, then you must also accept that men have greater responsibility to control their actions. Greater power equals greater responsibility. Seems logical.

The question then comes down to, can the way a woman dresses actually make it more difficult for a man to control himself? Political correctness says no. I'm not sure science and common sense agree.

Getting back to the issue of perception, lets look at this exchange. Diana says she dresses the ways she does because that what she wants and she's sorry if the guys are disappointed that its not for their benefit. But really, what difference does it make why she wore it? Breasts are secondary sexual features and there are thousands of years of evolution pushing men to notice them.

Another character this brings to mind is Powergirl, who is often seen making disparaging remarks about the way men stare at her breasts. I'm sorry Kara, but regarding some versions of your costume that is akin to entrapment. Especially if later down the track you and Black Canary are comparing the attractiveness of Nightwing and Hawkman's butts.

Its a complex issue with no easy answers. What I do feel certain of is that this statement in Sensation #7 is an easy answer and therefore not helpful.

[Blacksun]

good thing to know that our educational systems are old and surpassed, and mass media is many, really many times sexist.
I think is funny that women many times are encouraged to dress sexy, but when she does it she is called slut. it's a big paradox.

[kidstandout]

If we are talking about assault, there is no excuse.

However, the biggest part of this problem comes from the fact that men can almost always physically outmatch women.

If you accept that men have greater physical power than women as the norm, and that both men and women have comparable sexual drives, then you must also accept that men have greater responsibility to control their actions. Greater power equals greater responsibility. Seems logical.

The question then comes down to, can the way a woman dresses actually make it more difficult for a man to control himself? Political correctness says no. I'm not sure science and common sense agree.

Getting back to the issue of perception, lets look at this exchange. Diana says she dresses the ways she does because that what she wants and she's sorry if the guys are disappointed that its not for their benefit. But really, what difference does it make why she wore it? Breasts are secondary sexual features and there are thousands of years of evolution pushing men to notice them.

Another character this brings to mind is Powergirl, who is often seen making disparaging remarks about the way men stare at her breasts. I'm sorry Kara, but regarding some versions of your costume that is akin to entrapment. Especially if later down the track you and Black Canary are comparing the attractiveness of Nightwing and Hawkman's butts.

Its a complex issue with no easy answers. What I do feel certain of is that this statement in Sensation #7 is an easy answer and therefore not helpful.

my thing is this, if you want to put your body on display, do so. just don't try to have your cake and eat it too by getting mad when some males gawk.

[brettc1]

good thing to know that our educational systems are old and surpassed, and mass media is many, really many times sexist.
I think is funny that women many times are encouraged to dress sexy, but when she does it she is called slut. it's a big paradox.

It is a paradox. But nobody here is calling anybody a slut. At least I am not.

What I am saying is, going back to the polar bear analogy - the bear doesn't care why I am in her enclosure dressed in Salmon. Maybe salmon have medicinal value when worn against the skin. It doesn't matter to the bear. All she knows is her mouth is watering.

Men...well, we are basically really really clever bears. We are more aware of our actions and the causes, and able to think in complex ways. But under that we are still creatures of instinct. Stimulus/response still applies. We can work to control our instincts but we can't pretend they don't exist. Neither should anyone else.

[Lax]

If we are talking about assault, there is no excuse.

However, the biggest part of this problem comes from the fact that men can almost always physically outmatch women.

If you accept that men have greater physical power than women as the norm, and that both men and women have comparable sexual drives, then you must also accept that men have greater responsibility to control their actions. Greater power equals greater responsibility. Seems logical.

I'd say the male sex drive is significantly higher.

Only if women have a greater responsibility to avoid provoking a male to compensate for his expected restraint. Because there are women who will hit a guy not so much because they're brave, but because they don't expect to be hit back.

[brettc1]

I'd say the male sex drive is significantly higher.

I would need data to back that up. I'm not dismissing the idea, I'm saying I don't have evidence right now one way or the other.

I think in essence it comes down to a treatment of everyone of with mutual respect. That respect has to come from a mutual understanding, at least in general terms, of other people's situation.

One could argue that Diana's statement here boils down to "If you find what I am wearing provocative, that's your problem." That might well be true, but I can't really see how it helps anyone.

Especially since another woman might dress in exactly the same way with the intention of looking attractive. How then are people supposed to know the intentions of those around them? Are you supposed to look? Not look? Comment? Ignore? Who the hell knows.

The rest of the issue may offer more insight into where the writers are going with this.

[Dr. Hurt]

Awesome art. I will check this out.

The "dress because i want to" was pretty stupid. I agree. You might want to walk around with small star stickers covering your nipples, dont fault the others for getting turned on, or forming an opinion based on social standards and stereotypes.

[Blacksun]

It is a paradox. But nobody here is calling anybody a slut. At least I am not.

What I am saying is, going back to the polar bear analogy - the bear doesn't care why I am in her enclosure dressed in Salmon. Maybe salmon have medicinal value when worn against the skin. It doesn't matter to the bear. All she knows is her mouth is watering.

Men...well, we are basically really really clever bears. We are more aware of our actions and the causes, and able to think in complex ways. But under that we are still creatures of instinct. Stimulus/response still applies. We can work to control our instincts but we can't pretend they don't exist. Neither should anyone else.

Guys are excused by the society, that's what happens. If a bra strap can make a boy lose the concentration I don't know what to think. Girls are ofeten told to be caste, not show sexuality.Guys often get a free pass
I dress for myself, and I know many other girls do it too and ignore the articles "what clothes men hate to see women wearing". and I didn't even mention woman fullt clothed that anyway receive catcalls from men.
I expect the guys to look at attractive women, well me and other women look at attractive guys.

[Diana X Kal]

I didn't like the "I dress this way because I want to, not to provoke or impress you" part either.

I didn't find anything wrong with what the second guy said, especially when he was defending her and acknowledging how attractive she is. I used to use "hot", but don't anymore, I realized it isn't descriptive of my thoughts and I just don't like the way it sounds. I'm not knocking it for those that do, but in my opinion, beautiful is a much more accurate way to describe a woman's immense beauty and it sounds sexier to me. Impressed isn't the correct term to describe a person's attraction towards her. Though, some men are like that, I don't say in my head, "Wow, I'm impressed," when I see a gorgeous woman, but think along the lines of, "She is beautiful, I wonder if I'm who she's looking for?" Pretty much, I'm trying to say that it's the opposite for me. As a man, I feel that it's me who should impress the woman I attracted to. I'm not saying to try too hard or go overly out of your way, lol, but let her know how special she is to you. (I know, everyone isn't like me, no need for a gender equality debate, lol.) Wonder Woman is perfect, and when I talk about all the things I love about Wonder Woman, I always mention how beautiful she is. A guy doesn't have to be impressed to acknowledge how beautiful a woman is.

[brettc1]

Guys are excused by the society, that's what happens. If a bra strap can make a boy lose the concentration I don't know what to think. Girls are ofeten told to be caste, not show sexuality.Guys often get a free pass
I dress for myself, and I know many other girls do it too and ignore the articles "what clothes men hate to see women wearing". and I didn't even mention woman fullt clothed that anyway receive catcalls from men.
I expect the guys to look at attractive women, well me and other women look at attractive guys.

Blacksun, I think we should be clear what society we are both talking about, since I of course can only give my experience here in Australia. Where are you, exactly?

This problem does take on different aspects in different places. In Egypt there have been many stories telling how women are harassed in the street by the local men of the don't dress on what is considered a modest fashion, according to the culture. It's impossible for us to make a blanket statement that covers all bases.

That said, this story being set in the US (apparently) gives us some context for whatever point of view is being explored.

[Javier Velasco]

Hi everyone.

Please lets get back on track. Due to the nature of the character and her stories, WW discussions will often have some element of discussing sexism, feminism, etc. The thing is that we aren't here for general discussions of these issues. No matter how seductive it may be.

Make sure that when you discuss these issues you do so within the parameters of the thread topic. This one being Sensation #7.

Here is a hint. If your post doesn't directly reference the story or art in Sensation #7, it is probably not on topic.

Thank you.

Javier

[brettc1]

Hi everyone.

Please lets get back on track. Due to the nature of the character and her stories, WW discussions will often have some element of discussing sexism, feminism, etc. The thing is that we aren't here for general discussions of these issues. No matter how seductive it may be.

Make sure that when you discuss these issues you do so within the parameters of the thread topic. This one being Sensation #7.

Here is a hint. If your post doesn't directly reference the story or art in Sensation #7, it is probably not on topic.

Thank you.

Javier

okay, but the discussion here so far is whether we agree or disagree with what the character of Wonder Woman I the panels is saying, Javier. And why people think so. I'm not sure how to discuss this issue that is in the comic differently ? Short of sayinv I agree or disagree with no further explanation.

[Javier Velasco]

Hi brettc1,

I think the answer to your question is... by referencing Diana and the story specifically in your comments. If you can't do that, then you probably are speaking in general terms. And then it just takes a couple of posts for the thread to just become about men and women in general. That is not what this board is for.

As an example, let's take kidstandout's post. (And no offense is intended).

The post in it's entirety is.

"society has to stop excusing double standards in behavior period."

There is nothing "wrong" with that post, but it is simply a general post about society. Not a specific one about the book. If it were to be followed by 3 more posts agreeing or disagreeing with it, suddenly we are not talking about WW anymore.

And the thing is that this tends to happen most often with discussions of sexism and feminism, because people have very strong views about these subjects. Probably stronger than they have about Sensation #7.

I know it can be frustrating because you want to have a discussion about something that you really feel strongly about. It can also be frustrating someone who wants to chat about Sensation #7 to come on to a thread and find a general discussion about society.

So as moderators, we ask that you all just take that extra bit of effort to keep posts focused and specific to the thread.

Thank you,

Javier