Loki Agent of Asgard #6

[Raye]

Remender said that the timing didn't work to use the female Thor, if Axis is after Thor 1, it's VERY soon after. If you look at the cover of Agent of Asgard 8, which is when he is inverted, I am pretty sure they are on the moon, so... maybe Loki went to check out what was up with Thor, before the hammer got picked up and Thor finally leaves. The preview said Thor had been with the hammer for quite a while, weeks, maybe, but he has left 'when forced to do so' (which could mean he leaves to do Axis/Avengers stuff, only to go right back to the moon) so I am thinking that Axis is going on either very shortly after the first issue, or is happening concurrently.

The question of Odin and Freyja is a good one. One of the reviews I saw mentioned that there is friction there, it may end up with Asgard divided. Obviously, if that were to happen (and i mean, that's just a wild guess at this point, but, like Freyja could take Asgardia while Odin oversees the now re-opened Asgard) given what Freyja is doing with King Loki, if Loki had to pick a side, he would go with Odin, but would Odin want him?

As an aside, If Freyja and Odin did end up splitting things, maybe that would be a way for Marvel to introduce Fólkvangr at long last. (basically a second Valhalla, overseen by Freyja. In the Eddas, both of them were homes to the honored dead, with Odin taking one, then Freyja, and so on)

*edit:

Going back to take a look at that cover again to make sure i wasn't misremembering, I note now it also says something about 'Odin's Judgement' which could tie into what we are talking about.



Oh, and I went back to that 30 Days of Axis thing, and there is another quote that relates to Loki, somewhat.

""Amora finds herself face-to-face with a threat that only she can contend with, but in doing so finds herself, similar to some of the other villains, changed," explains Rick Remender. "And faced with the prospect of a fiery demise for the world, she doesn’t remain changed. The relationship with Loki becomes a bit more complicated as her feelings change towards him as well."

More on Marvel.com: http://marvel.com/news/comics/23218/...#ixzz3Enuivjva "

Well, their relationship is already kinda complicated, so I am not ENTIRELY sure sure what that last bit means, but it does mention that she doesn't remain changed, which pretty much evil, so likely they will be full blown enemies. maybe. Not good for those that ship Amora and Loki, but hey, it's potentially the start of a rogues gallery for him.

(this thread has gotten pretty far off track, hasn't it? it's kinda become general discussion of all things Asgard and Axis related, oh well)

[Rosebunse]

LOL I think the problem is that Loki's future is so obviously tied to whatever happens in Axis. Maybe we should just make a thread for Loki and Axis?

As for timing, I'm still confused. And Remender has been known to just not care about timing because he'll just use a quick timeskip later.

Yes, the thing with Odin does complicate things. Truth be told, I just don't think Odin would be as quick to write Loki off. We know that he does love Loki, and is even proud of him some of the time. I think Odin wouldn't want Loki on his side, but only because I imagine the old guy will realize sooner or later that Asgard is just a toxic environment for Loki. Of course, Loki is just as toxic to Asgard. And of course, there's the fact that Odin would probably wonder why anyone would trust old, scary, obviously evil Loki over not old, scary, obviously evil Loki.

As for Amora, from the interviews, it looks like Loki will be taking to being good, while Amora won't. So, Loki will have one more temptation to be evil. The question is, will he take it?

[jackolover]

This was more a DOOM book than Loki. Victor was the main character and the book was set in Latveria, and Loki had to come to Latveria, which I am not against. Young Loki comes off as rather ineffective here, being acted upon by the characters, Doom and Verity Willis. But the only one who did have any show time was old Loki from the future, that Doom visited to see what happened there. And from the result of that visit, Victor teleported Loki, (and inadvertently, Verity with an Invisibility amulet), to Latveria so Doom could encase Loki in a Time stable cube for ever. (They should never use the words "for ever" in comics). There is a hint that the hate wave has penetrated Latveria as two construction workers (repairing Sue Richards raid on Latveria), are starting to get agro with each other, so this is after AXIS #1, when the hate wave started. (And maybe FF annual #1 could have been the same hate wave in New York, as we got Malice attacking Doom).

Why Doom should be interested in what future Loki produces, I don't know. There doesn't seem to be any imperative to do any such thing. This could have been an issue of Fantastic Four as Valeria was a main instigator during the whole thing, being Dooms right arm and doing everything as instructed by Doom.

[Raye]

He's interested because Doom wants to build a better future for the world, and Loki kinda gets in the way of that, considering King Loki told him he basically laid waste to the entire world. If Doom is to succeed, Loki has to go, as far as he's concerned. I don't think Loki was being entirely truthful, but Doom took him at his word. (which is always a kind of stupid thing to do with Loki, but whatever)

[jackolover]

He's interested because Doom wants to build a better future for the world, and Loki kinda gets in the way of that, considering King Loki told him he basically laid waste to the entire world. If Doom is to succeed, Loki has to go, as far as he's concerned. I don't think Loki was being entirely truthful, but Doom took him at his word. (which is always a kind of stupid thing to do with Loki, but whatever)

But what Made Doom go to the future in the first place? What premonition did Doom have?

[vitruvian]

But what Made Doom go to the future in the first place? What premonition did Doom have?

I don't know, but as bad as the future with King Loki was, I guess Doom can be assured that he figures out a way to stop the Incursions. Otherwise, the Earth and universe wouldn't even be there.... ;-)

[Raye]

But what Made Doom go to the future in the first place? What premonition did Doom have?

He explained why right in the issue:

Valeria: "...Why did you go so far forward in time, Uncle Doom?"
Doom: "These good works we do -- And others -- I do for the sake of the future. I wanted to draw strength from tomorrow. To know my work is not in vain."

So he was checking up on HIMSELF, and the fate of the world in general, not Loki.

[Post Monster]

"Amora finds herself face-to-face with a threat that only she can contend with, but in doing so finds herself, similar to some of the other villains, changed," explains Rick Remender. "And faced with the prospect of a fiery demise for the world, she doesn’t remain changed. The relationship with Loki becomes a bit more complicated as her feelings change towards him as well."

Well, their relationship is already kinda complicated, so I am not ENTIRELY sure sure what that last bit means, but it does mention that she doesn't remain changed, which pretty much evil, so likely they will be full blown enemies. maybe. Not good for those that ship Amora and Loki, but hey, it's potentially the start of a rogues gallery for him.

Probably Amora will discover Loki is bi. That will complicate things quite a bit.

[jackolover]

I nice return match between Loki and Doom. Of course, I think Doom liked Fem Loki much better but here I think we have a Loki who is in over his head. I like the unique idea that Ewing has Doom come up with for his contest with Loki, a different take on the world of magic.

I think the construction workers are starting to show the hate effect of the Red Skull for the Axis tie in. So next issue will probably have Loki and Doom come together to face the common enemy

There is a completely different feel to the Pre-Siege Loki and Doom relationship and this AXIS relationship, even with old Future Loki. Back then before Siege, Doom was more grim, more determined. Now Doom is much more casual and less stressed, but he does have plans on the way as we saw in FF#12, when Valeria leaves Latveria and Doom laughs that his plans will involve multiple worlds and he shows what look like multiple alternate Earths in a visual. The difference from pre-Siege Doom to now Doom is that Victor fought Black Panther and lost, then he lost his memory due to World War Hulks, and restored via Valeria's interventions. I don't know if Doom is now a more reflective person, or just more cautious, but I don't think so as in the next issue we see why.

Young Loki is not fleshed out very well here. He does stumble a lot in the face of Verity Willis' barrage against his insensitivity, and just falls on her compassion. Then suddenly he is captured and he invokes his powers taking Verity along with him.

Old Loki is more circumspect, because he knows Doom can't touch him in his prison in Asgardia, so Loki is very enigmatic with Doom, and doesn't involve himself with trivialities like the current state of things in 2014. Loki is a god, after all, and his concerns outweigh the petty liabilities that Doom is stuck with.

[jackolover]

Good issue. Probably my least favorite of the series, but that's more because I liked the first arc so much and thought Ewing had better chemistry with Garbett, and not because this issue was bad or anything.

I thought Ewing wrote Doom well. I loved the idea of Doom challenging Loki to a "conversation battle," and I thought Doom's themes of magic and narrative worked perfectly to reinforce the concepts that the series has focused on all along. This book is about the power of story, and using the villain Doom to showcase that in a dictatorial way was a nice way to contrast how the villain Loki uses the power of story in a cunning way.

I thought the failing of this issue was with Loki himself. Loki seemed really weak and outclassed, and while I thought Coelho did a decent job with the art overall, I thought he struggled with Loki's facial expressions. Garbett's Loki always looked in control and attractive in a mischievious way, whereas Coelho's Loki looked kinda dumb and in over his head. I'm sure that's intentional to a degree to establish Doom as a threat and sell the cliffhanger, but this is Loki's book, and I thought he looked very unimpressive here.

I also didn't really get the point of spending so many pages with the Latverian construction workers, and thought that was a waste of time that could have been better spent with the supporting cast (Verily, Sigurd, etc).

I didn't understand the "conversation battle" or the themes of magic and narrative you mention here. While reading that sequence, I was trying to imagine what Doom was getting at with his references to evil driving the story narrative. It seems a little vague to try to relate that evil has this driving force that in narrative that ends up working like a spell. I had trouble getting my head around that concept.

[jackolover]

I think family is a BIG theme in Axis overall. We've got Wanda vs Pietro and Magneto (and I hope Polaris as well, though she has not been mentioned), then you have Scott and Alex but looks like they are patching things up with each other, and even Nightcrawler, Rogue and Mystique, so I'm thinking Loki and Thor's relationship will be a big part, and not just in the tie-in books.



Well, he may save Evan, too. Could go either way. That may make sense if it was Thor (and others, presumably) trying to kill Evan because he's convinced he will go evil and destroy everything, and Loki saves him, somehow, kinda making up for Kid Loki in a way. but yeah, it could just as easily be angst as Loki is forced to take him down.

So, Kid Loki is gone, right? He was replaced by old Loki from the future, the one in the cell in Asgardia's basement?

[jackolover]

He explained why right in the issue:

Valeria: "...Why did you go so far forward in time, Uncle Doom?"
Doom: "These good works we do -- And others -- I do for the sake of the future. I wanted to draw strength from tomorrow. To know my work is not in vain."

So he was checking up on HIMSELF, and the fate of the world in general, not Loki.

That seems like it was an accident that he met Loki in the future, when it seemed very obvious it was Loki he had to deal with to keep the future in tact. No, it seems to me that Doom looked like he was seeking Loki out in the future.

[Raye]

So, Kid Loki is gone, right? He was replaced by old Loki from the future, the one in the cell in Asgardia's basement?

Kid Loki is gone, replaced by young Loki, who is a copy of the original. I do not think King Loki is real.

Young Loki = The main protagonist of Agent of Asgard, the early 20's looking guy.
Future Loki = Sitting in the future, trying to fix things by altering the story of the past, most likely using the shadow of Gram to do so.
King Loki = A character Future Loki created to act as an agent of change in the past, much like the Leah that was inserted into the Serpent's story.

This has not been confirmed yet, but as time goes on more and more clues have been piling up that point to this, or something similar.

That seems like it was an accident that he met Loki in the future, when it seemed very obvious it was Loki he had to deal with to keep the future in tact. No, it seems to me that Doom looked like he was seeking Loki out in the future.

An accident from Doom's perspective, yes, but I am sure King Loki planned on meeting Doom there. Or Future Loki did, more accurately, and he then inserted King Loki into Doom's story, much like he inserted him into Young Loki's story. I am pretty sure Future Loki was intentionally manipulating events in order to get Young Loki involved with the inversion.

[jackolover]

Kid Loki is gone, replaced by young Loki, who is a copy of the original. I do not think King Loki is real.

Young Loki = The main protagonist of Agent of Asgard, the early 20's looking guy.
Future Loki = Sitting in the future, trying to fix things by altering the story of the past, most likely using the shadow of Gram to do so.
King Loki = A character Future Loki created to act as an agent of change in the past, much like the Leah that was inserted into the Serpent's story.

This has not been confirmed yet, but as time goes on more and more clues have been piling up that point to this, or something similar.



An accident from Doom's perspective, yes, but I am sure King Loki planned on meeting Doom there. Or Future Loki did, more accurately, and he then inserted King Loki into Doom's story, much like he inserted him into Young Loki's story. I am pretty sure Future Loki was intentionally manipulating events in order to get Young Loki involved with the inversion.

Yeah, thanks for clearing all that up.

[Charlie_1981]

Probably Amora will discover Loki is bi. That will complicate things quite a bit.

Who says that Amora isn´t bi too? I don´t think this is a problem for her, on the other hand, Lorelei is less sensitive but she just agree in spite of what she would really think.