Waffletastic Stephanie Brown Appreciation (Spoiler/Robin/Batgirl/Spoiler again)

[millernumber1]

Which conversation got you to do this?

The one about Steph not becoming Batgirl/how you would rewrite Batgirl.

[Assam]

The one about Steph not becoming Batgirl/how you would rewrite Batgirl.

Ah. Don't think I ever mentioned a situation where Steph ended up as support in Tim's book, but I'm guessing you're going off the idea of Cass being Tim's co-star there.

[millernumber1]

Ah. Don't think I ever mentioned a situation where Steph ended up as support in Tim's book, but I'm guessing you're going off the idea of Cass being Tim's co-star there.

I don't actually remember for sure. For some reason, the idea of "What if Cass stayed Batgirl, and Steph remained Tim's supporting character" was connected with some conversation I had with you (though it could also have been on 4chan, haha). But boy oh boy, am I glad she did not, at least if they were going to stick with FabNic as the writer for Tim. (I also posted some hot takes on FabNic writing Tim, because man were those some terrible plot holes/contrivances.)

[prettysunshine9]

I've been sitting on this thought for a few days now and was wondering what others think of it but how much do you think personality wise Stephanie is like her parents? Both in positive and negative traits? It seems at points that she defines herself by being as little like them as possible, but I do wonder if she picked up stubbornness from her dad and he willingness to help people from her mum (or at least, one would hope that as nurse Steph's mum was in the occupation to help people), but other than that she really is a black (or white?) sheep of her family. This is probably even more pronounced post-flashpoint when not even her mum is very redeemable.

[millernumber1]

I've been sitting on this thought for a few days now and was wondering what others think of it but how much do you think personality wise Stephanie is like her parents? Both in positive and negative traits? It seems at points that she defines herself by being as little like them as possible, but I do wonder if she picked up stubbornness from her dad and he willingness to help people from her mum (or at least, one would hope that as nurse Steph's mum was in the occupation to help people), but other than that she really is a black (or white?) sheep of her family. This is probably even more pronounced post-flashpoint when not even her mum is very redeemable.

That is a very good point. BQM pointed out in Batgirl #24 that both Arthur and Stephanie have difficulty with the best intentions leading to disaster, and Steph turning out better is likely the result of Tim, Cass, Bruce, and Babs's influence.

[Frontier]

Inspired by a conversation with Assam recently, I reread all of Fabian Nicieza's writing for Steph after she came back from Africa (Robin #175-183, Gotham Gazette #1-2, and Red Robin #15 and 20), and boy am I glad that Steph got to be Batgirl under BQM's pen, instead of staying in FabNic's titles as a supporting character. Because the writing for Steph was really incoherent. She's hiring villains to do non-lethal things to make Tim better - which is an impossibly vague goal anyway - and decides to use sex appeal to get away from one of Tim's teenage foes. She also has a few awkward school scenes to make Tim's relationship with his girlfriend Zo awkward. It all wraps up with Tim telling Steph to stop being Spoiler. Though I like that FabNic affirms that Tim and Steph love each other, this is a really dumb way to write their relationship. I see kinda what he's going for, but Tim is just so unlikeable, and Steph is pretty incompetent with planning.

Then, in Gotham Gazette (during Battle for the Cowl), he writes a really bizarre little story about Steph defying Tim and capturing Nocturna the vampire with invisibility tech (that is never mentioned again), and Tim tells her she's not cut out for the hero business. At least FabNic had Steph defy Tim and say she chooses the life of a hero. But wow, that was some incoherent storytelling.

Lastly, in Red Robin, strangely FabNic completely ignores all of the history he developed between Tim and Steph, and has them basically act like work buddies. Tim thinks Steph is hot as Batgirl, and he gives her a heads up about Calculator, but there's none of the history that BQM showed, and even FabNic himself stressed, in all of his previous writing of their relationship.

I'm so grateful that DC decided to give Steph a solo instead of keep her as Tim's supporting character, if this was the quality of writing Steph was going to get. I didn't mind the way Yost wrote her, but FabNic was clearly not going to do her any favors.

Now I'm kind of morbidly curious as to what this entailed...

[millernumber1]

Now I'm kind of morbidly curious as to what this entailed...

You haven't read the "Search for a Hero" arc (Robin #175-182)? I mean, it is pretty forgettable, but it has its fans for being the last run of Tim as Robin.

Basically, it means she got shot by the General in the shoulder, and when she wakes up, he stiches her up, so her top is half off. She lets it slip further and says she is hot for him, and when he is distracted by the sight of so much Steph, she punches him and hits him with her grapple gun.

This is FabNic, who spent a lot of time in Red Robin playing "steal Tim's virginity", so I'm not surprised at the general distastefulness of this sequence.

[TheCape]

Nevermind.

[Frontier]

You haven't read the "Search for a Hero" arc (Robin #175-182)? I mean, it is pretty forgettable, but it has its fans for being the last run of Tim as Robin.

Basically, it means she got shot by the General in the shoulder, and when she wakes up, he stiches her up, so her top is half off. She lets it slip further and says she is hot for him, and when he is distracted by the sight of so much Steph, she punches him and hits him with her grapple gun.

This is FabNic, who spent a lot of time in Red Robin playing "steal Tim's virginity", so I'm not surprised at the general distastefulness of this sequence.

Wow. I read that arc but I don't remember that moment at all. It sounds like the kind of thing that would stick out to me...

[millernumber1]

Wow. I read that arc but I don't remember that moment at all. It sounds like the kind of thing that would stick out to me...

I was taking pretty detailed notes, so I realized for the first time (though I have read this arc two or three times) just how incoherent the plotting is on these issues. So much of what happens is for effect, and makes no sense. Plus, the effect is all about making Tim into Batman (in the Titans of Tommorow mold), so that effect is pretty obnoxious.

[TheCape]

704f1c68ab34a4d7475c80ab3ae4ee5a-d5uwmkr.jpg
Here is cute batfamily pitch, i put it here because i thought that Steph looked adorable.

[millernumber1]

704f1c68ab34a4d7475c80ab3ae4ee5a-d5uwmkr.jpg
Here is cute batfamily pitch, i put it here because i thought that Steph looked adorable.

Those are sweet!

[adrikito]

704f1c68ab34a4d7475c80ab3ae4ee5a-d5uwmkr.jpg
Here is cute batfamily pitch, i put it here because i thought that Steph looked adorable.

Yes, she look adorable here.

[adrikito]

In the last Detective Comics, only 1 page with Steph... WHAT A SHAME..

[AlvinDraper]

In the last Detective Comics, only 1 page with Steph... WHAT A SHAME..

We'll have to wait for the next issue, sadly...