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  1. #2461
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    This in it's own way is a huge set back for her.
    Could you expand on what you mean by "setback?"
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
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  2. #2462
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Could you expand on what you mean by "setback?"
    She hasn't been well written in a very long time and what happened just furthers that problem.
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  3. #2463
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    She hasn't been well written in a very long time and what happened just furthers that problem.
    I disagree a bit. She definitely wasn't super well written in the last two issues. But the biggest problem with her is she wasn't written, period. Tynion wrote her out in Victim Syndicate - and it was logical and I think well written at the time. And the first Spoiler issue of Tec, where she fights the Wrath, was pretty good. But the second time was much, less well paced, and I think it's clear at this point that Steph's story has gotten away from Tynion, which is what I was afraid of when he pawned her off on a co-writer last summer.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
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  4. #2464
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I disagree a bit. She definitely wasn't super well written in the last two issues. But the biggest problem with her is she wasn't written, period. Tynion wrote her out in Victim Syndicate - and it was logical and I think well written at the time. And the first Spoiler issue of Tec, where she fights the Wrath, was pretty good. But the second time was much, less well paced, and I think it's clear at this point that Steph's story has gotten away from Tynion, which is what I was afraid of when he pawned her off on a co-writer last summer.
    As far as characterisation goes how is that well written though? Forgive me but I am not familiar with Stephanie's character what was she like in Post-Crisis?
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  5. #2465
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    As far as characterisation goes how is that well written though? Forgive me but I am not familiar with Stephanie's character what was she like in Post-Crisis?
    Steph in Post-Crisis has two main characterizations: fun-loving girl with a big stubborn streak, and hard-edged vigilante with anger issues caused by her dad. Dixon was able to segue between the two pretty well, as her creator. A significant chunk of Steph's fanbase doesn't like her time as Batgirl because Bryan Q. Miller definitely leaned hard on the fun-loving side of her characterization.

    I've been arguing this for a year now, since Victim Syndicate ended, that Tynion's choices for Steph are good, at least in concept, because so much of Steph's arc in the pre-Flashpoint canon was her being an outsider because Batman didn't think she was good enough. (At least, that was the narrative post-Dixon.) Now Tynion is writing a Bruce who wouldn't keep Steph at arm's length for these reasons, because Tynion's Bruce is much more emotionally open than most previous Batman incarnations in the past 20 years. If you're going to do that, but you still want Steph to be an outsider, you need to give her a reason for it - so Tynion gave her a complicated emotional and philosophical reason to leave the group. I think if he'd actually focused on it, it could have resolved well. But instead, he farmed it out to an inferior writer (who did okay the first issue, but the next two issues he really fumbled), and I think he's lost control of where her story should be going.

    But in the first two arcs, you had the Steph who was fun loving, stubborn, and sassy - pretty solid stuff. Then she was torn apart by grief at Tim's death, and that caused her to be unable to see the good in what Batman does. So she left, and tried to do stuff on her own. I think all of that was pretty solid stuff. But it did set most of the fandom against her, and at this point, I'm starting to join them, because the reversal between this issue and the last is just incredibly badly done.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
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  6. #2466
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Steph in Post-Crisis has two main characterizations: fun-loving girl with a big stubborn streak, and hard-edged vigilante with anger issues caused by her dad. Dixon was able to segue between the two pretty well, as her creator. A significant chunk of Steph's fanbase doesn't like her time as Batgirl because Bryan Q. Miller definitely leaned hard on the fun-loving side of her characterization.

    I've been arguing this for a year now, since Victim Syndicate ended, that Tynion's choices for Steph are good, at least in concept, because so much of Steph's arc in the pre-Flashpoint canon was her being an outsider because Batman didn't think she was good enough. (At least, that was the narrative post-Dixon.) Now Tynion is writing a Bruce who wouldn't keep Steph at arm's length for these reasons, because Tynion's Bruce is much more emotionally open than most previous Batman incarnations in the past 20 years. If you're going to do that, but you still want Steph to be an outsider, you need to give her a reason for it - so Tynion gave her a complicated emotional and philosophical reason to leave the group. I think if he'd actually focused on it, it could have resolved well. But instead, he farmed it out to an inferior writer (who did okay the first issue, but the next two issues he really fumbled), and I think he's lost control of where her story should be going.

    But in the first two arcs, you had the Steph who was fun loving, stubborn, and sassy - pretty solid stuff. Then she was torn apart by grief at Tim's death, and that caused her to be unable to see the good in what Batman does. So she left, and tried to do stuff on her own. I think all of that was pretty solid stuff. But it did set most of the fandom against her, and at this point, I'm starting to join them, because the reversal between this issue and the last is just incredibly badly done.
    Well that's not good not good at all at this point I just would rather make my own rendition of the DC and Marvel universes it's easier when I am at the head of things. Central Command is in disarray in both companies.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  7. #2467
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    Well that's not good not good at all at this point I just would rather make my own rendition of the DC and Marvel universes it's easier when I am at the head of things. Central Command is in disarray in both companies.
    Um. I mean, I'd also love to be in charge of the New DC Universe: Steph Is The Best company, but I think Rebirth in general has been pretty good. I think Tynion has just been hijacked by Metal/NOPE JUSTICE, and hasn't been giving Tec all the attention it needs with all of the plates he needs to spin.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
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  8. #2468
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Um. I mean, I'd also love to be in charge of the New DC Universe: Steph Is The Best company, but I think Rebirth in general has been pretty good. I think Tynion has just been hijacked by Metal/NOPE JUSTICE, and hasn't been giving Tec all the attention it needs with all of the plates he needs to spin.
    Tynion is on No Justice as well?
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  9. #2469
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    Tynion is on No Justice as well?
    Oh, yes. He's co-writing the series with Snyder and Williamson, and is also said to be working on whatever Snyder is doing after the event as well.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
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  10. #2470
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Oh, yes. He's co-writing the series with Snyder and Williamson, and is also said to be working on whatever Snyder is doing after the event as well.
    He is being burned out can't they hire someone else instead to do No Justice?
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  11. #2471
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    He is being burned out can't they hire someone else instead to do No Justice?
    I agree. But he's Snyder's buddy, and they have a really close working relationship. So I don't see that changing anytime soon. I wish he were still on twitter, though. But that's probably why he's not - doesn't want a bunch of Steph and Tim and Cass fans all tweeting him asking him to make Tec his priority.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
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  12. #2472
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I agree. But he's Snyder's buddy, and they have a really close working relationship. So I don't see that changing anytime soon. I wish he were still on twitter, though. But that's probably why he's not - doesn't want a bunch of Steph and Tim and Cass fans all tweeting him asking him to make Tec his priority.
    Considering the current climate going on in social media I can see why Tynion ducked out though so it might be a while until things can be sorted out.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  13. #2473
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    Considering the current climate going on in social media I can see why Tynion ducked out though so it might be a while until things can be sorted out.
    I really liked the Q&As he did, though. They were really a window into what it's like being the world's biggest Tim Drake fan.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
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  14. #2474
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I really liked the Q&As he did, though. They were really a window into what it's like being the world's biggest Tim Drake fan.
    Too bad No Justice and Metal took up so much of time that he still has yet to properly write booth Tim and Stephanie in character. And yeah maybe with DC's new policy on social media the Q&A's could return.
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  15. #2475
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    Too bad No Justice and Metal took up so much of time that he still has yet to properly write booth Tim and Stephanie in character. And yeah maybe with DC's new policy on social media the Q&A's could return.
    Well, I take issue with the idea that he hasn't written Tim and Steph in character. I think there are plenty of moments, up to the end of Victim Syndicate, where he wrote Steph in character (allowing for new circumstances). And I think his Tim has always been really solid. I know there's lots of hate for "hacker Tim," but I really don't think that he's done it too much, except maybe Batman and Robin Eternal #1. His Tim in Batman Eternal was wonderful, though a supporting character.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
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