Waffletastic Stephanie Brown Appreciation (Spoiler/Robin/Batgirl/Spoiler again)

[The Dying Detective]

I mean, I don't want to get too far into my OTHER favorite purple-clad Gotham vigilante (she has her own appreciation thread here that needs love! http://community.comicbookresources....s-Appreciation). But short version: yes, she's the same character. Like Steph and Cass, she was erased in the n52, but it was much, much more offensive, because they wrote a Huntress miniseries teasing fans that she was still alive, but then it turned out it was Earth 2 Helena Wayne. (I'm still mad.) Then Tim Seeley introduced her at the end of Nightwing/beginning of Grayson as the head of Spyral's academy for girl assassins, and after he left Grayson, he brought her into Nightwing for an arc. He's also bringing her into Hellblazer for an arc (I'm probably going to buy that as well, since Seeley writes a pretty great Helena, I think.) I have no confirmation on whether Seeley's going to use her in Green Lanterns - I'm just making a joke based on his previous work.

After Batman Eternal, when Steph and Tim flirted in the very last issue, I was really bummed that not even Batman and Robin Eternal really did anything with that relationship. I'm really glad Tynion decided to put them back together, but I wish he'd done it in Batman and Robin Eternal - have them get closer in that series - instead of just surprising us in the second issue of Tec.

I'm still really unsure of why they changed The Button. That whole miniseries was so pointless without the reveal that Tim was alive.

Nah I just wondered whether others thought when Helena Bertinelli was reintroduced people thought she was race lifted aside from that this guy I know Shawn James who ranted about it on his blog. Okay still it might be fun to see Helena give Jessica advice about Dick. I heard about Stephanie and Tim's flirtations but yeah why couldn't Tynion use her or did it have something to with Tim being on the Teen Titans? The original plan was to show that Tim Drake was alive? Why did they change the Button to simply kick off Doomsday Clock?

[millernumber1]

Nah I just wondered whether others thought when Helena Bertinelli was reintroduced people thought she was race lifted aside from that this guy I know Shawn James who ranted about it on his blog. Okay still it might be fun to see Helena give Jessica advice about Dick. I heard about Stephanie and Tim's flirtations but yeah why couldn't Tynion use her or did it have something to with Tim being on the Teen Titans? The original plan was to show that Tim Drake was alive? Why did they change the Button to simply kick off Doomsday Clock?

Oh, it's still a fairly hot issue in Huntress fandom. All three of us.

I think Tynion was trying to tell Harper's story too much, and it ate all of Steph's room.

Yes, the original plan was for Tim Drake to be revealed to Batman in The Button, and Tec was going to reference that. I have ZERO clues why they changed it - the event was so limp without that reveal. It had some feel good moments, but otherwise it was completely filler. A four issue preview for Doomsday Clock.

[The Dying Detective]

Oh, it's still a fairly hot issue in Huntress fandom. All three of us.

I think Tynion was trying to tell Harper's story too much, and it ate all of Steph's room.

Yes, the original plan was for Tim Drake to be revealed to Batman in The Button, and Tec was going to reference that. I have ZERO clues why they changed it - the event was so limp without that reveal. It had some feel good moments, but otherwise it was completely filler. A four issue preview for Doomsday Clock.

Yet Helena Bertinelli is still Italian and they only changed her skin to allegedly avoid her being confused with Helena Wayne. Harper Row looked too flat to be a very interesting character honestly So I'm not sure why she got the spotlight. It does seem odd to change the plan still I saw no reason why they couldn't do both Doomsday Clock, Tim Drake's return, and the revelation that Jay Garrick was trapped in the Speedforce in the Button any way.

[millernumber1]

Yet Helena Bertinelli is still Italian and they only changed her skin to allegedly avoid her being confused with Helena Wayne. Harper Row looked too flat to be a very interesting character honestly So I'm not sure why she got the spotlight. It does seem odd to change the plan still I saw no reason why they couldn't do both Doomsday Clock, Tim Drake's return, and the revelation that Jay Garrick was trapped in the Speedforce in the Button any way.

I liked Harper okay, but I hate what Tynion did with her, making her Cass's best friend and Tim's trainee, instead of Steph. And Batman Eternal #51, much as I love that series so much, was incredibly terrible.

But I agree - they could have done The Button much better. But I have no idea what the editors were juggling.

[Godlike13]

I think Harper might have gotten a better reception if they tried to tell her story in the proper places, rather then say something titled Batman and Robin Eternal.

[millernumber1]

I think Harper might have gotten a better reception if they tried to tell her story in the proper places, rather then say something titled Batman and Robin Eternal.

People say that a lot. I think it might have been nice to see Harper's story told in We Are Robin - her attitude would have fit better with that group. But Tynion wasn't writing We Are Robin, and Harper was in many ways his character - he was a big part of co-writing her first appearance in Batman #12. Snyder seems to regret not taking more control over Harper's narrative, comparing her story ending fairly conclusively (for at least three years) with what he wants to do with Duke (though he continues to refuse to actually write Duke's story solo, which is what I think it really needs, instead of backups or secondary characters.)

Anyway - I'm kicking myself for not asking Tynion is Harper was indeed created in response to the inability to use Steph or Cass. People keep repeating that rumor, but it's never been nailed down to a specific time or interview, so I don't trust it.

[The Dying Detective]

I liked Harper okay, but I hate what Tynion did with her, making her Cass's best friend and Tim's trainee, instead of Steph. And Batman Eternal #51, much as I love that series so much, was incredibly terrible.

But I agree - they could have done The Button much better. But I have no idea what the editors were juggling.

It did seem pretty awful to have Harper take over Stephanie's role when it would be more prudent to re-establish Stephanie's place in the Batfamily and I don't really hate Harper Row but due to the glut load of characters I'm kind of expecting her to just vanish into the background. Maybe it was impossible for Tim to call out to Bruce when they were travelling through Hypertime but then agian their destination was not Mr. Oz's hideaway it was Doctor Manhattan's so there might not have been a way for Batman to reach Tim during the Button.

[adrikito]

I liked Harper okay, but I hate what Tynion did with her, making her Cass's best friend and Tim's trainee, instead of Steph..

DAMN.... I forgot her.... I HATE THAT TOO..

Seems that I will only return in Cass saga... And then goodbye again, detective comics.. Even if Cass is here, I don´t want a new Bat-team without Steph, with Harper and maybe even D..ke...

[millernumber1]

It did seem pretty awful to have Harper take over Stephanie's role when it would be more prudent to re-establish Stephanie's place in the Batfamily and I don't really hate Harper Row but due to the glut load of characters I'm kind of expecting her to just vanish into the background. Maybe it was impossible for Tim to call out to Bruce when they were travelling through Hypertime but then agian their destination was not Mr. Oz's hideaway it was Doctor Manhattan's so there might not have been a way for Batman to reach Tim during the Button.

I don't hate Harper either, but I do hate that particular consequence of DC's ban on Steph and Cass. Tynion has promised she's coming back - I'm hoping in The Immortal Men, because that would mean she's probably safely out of Steph and Cass and Tim's way. Or maybe NOPE JUSTICE.

The whole time travel thing makes no sense anyway, so why not have Bruce find out about Tim?

DAMN.... I forgot her.... I HATE THAT TOO..

Seems that I will only return in Cass saga... And then goodbye again, detective comics.. Even if Cass is here, I don´t want a new Bat-team without Steph, with Harper and maybe even D..ke...

I just wish they could do something with Harper that wouldn't get between Steph, Cass, and Tim. I would like her just fine if they could do that.

[The Dying Detective]

I don't hate Harper either, but I do hate that particular consequence of DC's ban on Steph and Cass. Tynion has promised she's coming back - I'm hoping in The Immortal Men, because that would mean she's probably safely out of Steph and Cass and Tim's way. Or maybe NOPE JUSTICE.

The whole time travel thing makes no sense anyway, so why not have Bruce find out about Tim?

Anything goes I would say though I've seen the line for the teams on No Justice Stephanie is not one of them. The Immortal Men might be out of Stephanie's depth because she's a street level heroine the Immortal Men are fantasy based characters she'll be slaughtered working with them. She's much safer in Detective Comics so she'll probably be there after she finally gets some sense talked into her. Well when you think about it the goal was to reach Doctor Manhattan not Mr. Oz it might not make sense to bring back Tim Drake when their objective is to get to Doctor Manhattan.

[millernumber1]

Anything goes I would say though I've seen the line for the teams on No Justice Stephanie is not one of them. The Immortal Men might be out of Stephanie's depth because she's a street level heroine the Immortal Men are fantasy based characters she'll be slaughtered working with them. She's much safer in Detective Comics so she'll probably be there after she finally gets some sense talked into her. Well when you think about it the goal was to reach Doctor Manhattan not Mr. Oz it might not make sense to bring back Tim Drake when their objective is to get to Doctor Manhattan.

Oh, I don't think I'd really want to see Steph trying to do silly things with fantasy/god characters. I love her interaction with Gotham.

I just think the whole thing with Mr. Oz still doesn't make sense. But then, I didn't read the Action part of that story, so...whatevs.

[The Dying Detective]

Oh, I don't think I'd really want to see Steph trying to do silly things with fantasy/god characters. I love her interaction with Gotham.

I just think the whole thing with Mr. Oz still doesn't make sense. But then, I didn't read the Action part of that story, so...whatevs.

Then again Stephanie did join the Teen Titans for a while back in Post Crisis but the things the Immortal Men deal with might be too strong for her. Tim was going to Ivy which would have lead him to Ryan Choi and they might figure who messed up the DC Universe much quicker so Mr. Oz took him off the board to prevent it from happening. And Doctor Manhattan took Jor-El from Krypton just as it blew up to turn him into a tool to break Superman.

[millernumber1]

Then again Stephanie did join the Teen Titans for a while back in Post Crisis but the things the Immortal Men deal with might be too strong for her. Tim was going to Ivy which would have lead him to Ryan Choi and they might figure who messed up the DC Universe much quicker so Mr. Oz took him off the board to prevent it from happening. And Doctor Manhattan took Jor-El from Krypton just as it blew up to turn him into a tool to break Superman.

Well, I should say that I don't think even Batman belongs on the Justice League, for so many reasons.

In other news, one of my favorite Steph fanfic series: A Different Game, in which Steph was the Robin who died and became the Red Hood, has a new update - from Batman's perspective, and it's everything I could have wished!

https://archiveofourown.org/works/13709304

[The Dying Detective]

Well, I should say that I don't think even Batman belongs on the Justice League, for so many reasons.

In other news, one of my favorite Steph fanfic series: A Different Game, in which Steph was the Robin who died and became the Red Hood, has a new update - from Batman's perspective, and it's everything I could have wished!

https://archiveofourown.org/works/13709304

Yet both Stephanie and Batman survive and continue to survive their tenure's on either team, hahahaha! Still if Mr. Tynion is unable to fix Stephanie I will but it will require some intense character study. In fact i already have a plan for her mainly to be Spoiler and Tim Drake's partner in fighting crime in a different city. Additional supporting cast members will include Tim's best friend Ives, Tamara Fox, and Lynx III. Okay I might check it if I have the time.

[adrikito]

Best friends:

batgirl cassandra cain stephanie brown.jpg