Waffletastic Stephanie Brown Appreciation (Spoiler/Robin/Batgirl/Spoiler again)

[AlvinDraper]

I'm cautiously optimistic. I don't want to get my hopes up, because DC has let me down so many times before (Convergence: Batgirl, anyone?), but...

Yeah..I hear you, Batgirl Convergence wasn't one of my fav, well at least timsteph was canon at the end...I loved that bit

[millernumber1]

Yeah..I hear you, Batgirl Convergence wasn't one of my fav, well at least timsteph was canon at the end...I loved that bit

I will defend Convergence: Batgirl more than most (largely because of the TimSteph), but it was not everything I'd waited for 4 years for. To be fair, very few things could bear that level of anticipation. But Future's End: Batgirl was much better.

[The Dying Detective]

And Tynion who created this problems will be out.... Damnit...

ONE BAD PREDICTION.... Based in when Tim dissapeared.. Steph will die too? I can´t understand why Batwoman, Azrael and Batwing are in the Final Cover but Steph no.. Only because she hates now the vigilant life? Thanks Tynion..

A fake death or maybe temporary retire could be in order I mean something will compel her to come back into action.

[adrikito]

If you pay close attention to the YJ interviews it looks like spoiler, arrowette and 13 are there to be the new generation sidekicks for nightwing, artemis and superboy.

I think that we should see these interviews, Miller..

yeah if you lesson to Brandon Vietti comic-con interviews he says the new characters (spoiler, arrowette and 13) are there to continue the growth of the YJ universe and a new generation that was inspired by the season 1 core characters (you can see this with artemis saving arrowette's dad in season 1 and steph in season 2) and that they're there to bounce of the core characters (nightwing, artemis and superboy) as they move from mentee's to mentors in season 3.

i09 and comicbook.com (video interview) has some. and he doesn't say it out right but if you pay close attention and remember spoiler arrowette and 13 are " new characers" and nightwing, artemis and superboy are "core characters" in the interviews.

Stephanie in YJ is a runaway from Bludhaven, her first small cameo was in the nightwing arc of the tie in comic at the end when dick got home and babs is there outside his apartment and dick walks past Stephanie's missing person's pic. Now in season 3 she's on dicks former team rocking escrima sticks on her back just like dick at the same time nightwing's moving form protégé to mentor.

[The Dying Detective]

I'm trying to remember that there's room in our line of fandom for hope...but it's pretty hard sometimes.

Tynion did try to craft some mini arcs for Steph, and the first one (951) was pretty great, but the second one was a mess. Plus they were co-written by a guy who just isn't as good as Tynion.

Nice reference to Stephanie's Batgirl series. I know it's hard but there might be some hope because you never know the future is full of surprises both good and bad you just have to take the bad and the good and soldier on. One of those arcs was how Stephanie took down Wrath I think if Batman had intervened it could lead to some development for Stephanie and for her to do tha tshows how she was contradicting her belief that vigilantes are bad for Gotham. And I believe the other one where she helped Anarky why did you think it was bad?

[millernumber1]

Nice reference to Stephanie's Batgirl series. I know it's hard but there might be some hope because you never know the future is full of surprises both good and bad you just have to take the bad and the good and soldier on. One of those arcs was how Stephanie took down Wrath I think if Batman had intervened it could lead to some development for Stephanie and for her to do tha tshows how she was contradicting her belief that vigilantes are bad for Gotham. And I believe the other one where she helped Anarky why did you think it was bad?

The problem with a long-time Steph fan's view of the future is that we've had literally 25 years of Steph being shoved in a corner. I talked with the very nice Steph fans who helped create the Steph fan wikia linked in my signature (which I current moderate), and both of them left comics in 2011 when Steph was erased. Even when she came back in 2014, they didn't want to come back, because they had decades of frustration that just weren't being answered. I know other Steph fans who left in 2005 when Steph was tortured and killed, and didn't come back in 2008 for the same reasons. I've hung in there, even though I left comics in 2011, because when she came back in 2014, I was a big fan of Batman Eternal, not just her parts of it.

As for the Utopia/Dystopia arc, I thought that it was really frustrating because of the way Batman couldn't tell Steph that Tim was alive, and that Steph and Clayface both basically were going in circles - they made no progress in their struggles, but ended up right where they started. Plus the fight choreography and panel layouts were not nearly as well done as in the main series.

[The Dying Detective]

The problem with a long-time Steph fan's view of the future is that we've had literally 25 years of Steph being shoved in a corner. I talked with the very nice Steph fans who helped create the Steph fan wikia linked in my signature (which I current moderate), and both of them left comics in 2011 when Steph was erased. Even when she came back in 2014, they didn't want to come back, because they had decades of frustration that just weren't being answered. I know other Steph fans who left in 2005 when Steph was tortured and killed, and didn't come back in 2008 for the same reasons. I've hung in there, even though I left comics in 2011, because when she came back in 2014, I was a big fan of Batman Eternal, not just her parts of it.

As for the Utopia/Dystopia arc, I thought that it was really frustrating because of the way Batman couldn't tell Steph that Tim was alive, and that Steph and Clayface both basically were going in circles - they made no progress in their struggles, but ended up right where they started. Plus the fight choreography and panel layouts were not nearly as well done as in the main series.

I get what you mean being disappointed so many times can lead to one surrendering and the fact DC brought her back only to fumble with her before she could return to prominence. If only there was a way to give Tim a solo comic then Stephanie can appear there and she can finally get some good spotlight provided the writer is up to the task. Yeah but I can't believe Tynion made such a foolish move even with the work load he has to fumble Stephanie's development and looking back I wanted to see Stephanie turn around and ask, "What did you say?" That's one very tiny detail that's can't be hard to mess up.

[millernumber1]

I get what you mean being disappointed so many times can lead to one surrendering and the fact DC brought her back only to fumble with her before she could return to prominence. If only there was a way to give Tim a solo comic then Stephanie can appear there and she can finally get some good spotlight provided the writer is up to the task. Yeah but I can't believe Tynion made such a foolish move even with the work load he has to fumble Stephanie's development and looking back I wanted to see Stephanie turn around and ask, "What did you say?" That's one very tiny detail that's can't be hard to mess up.

I can definitely believe Tynion made the mistake with Steph. He's doing the exact same dynamic with Tim right now, but because Tim has a focal point for the last several arcs rather than a pop up issue every now and then, it's much more successful.

[Assam]

At the very least I'm not worried that Steph is going to be killed. I wish I could say the same thing for Cass.

[millernumber1]

At the very least I'm not worried that Steph is going to be killed. I wish I could say the same thing for Cass.

Where are all these "Tynion will kill off Steph and Cass" theories coming from? I really don't see it happening at all.

[Assam]

Where are all these "Tynion will kill off Steph and Cass" theories coming from? I really don't see it happening at all.

Never said anything about Tynion. It's King I'm concerned about and his "There's a reason Cassandra Cain isn't here" quote regarding Batman Annual #2.

[Bat-Meal]

I don't know about any King quote, but as far as 'Tec goes there's no foreshadowing that I can see that points to Cass's demise. She's just in a very bad place emotionally, losing Basil, and feeling completely betrayed by Kate (who she was also fairly close with and now thinks wants her dead).

I am somewhat confused about Steph though, in the Batwoman Rebirth first issue there was a flashback/forward(?) of Steph getting teary-eyed and asking Kate if she was leaving. This indicated that Steph and Kate were going to get closer, but it hasn't happened - and time is pretty much up for them to get close (in 'Tec anyway).

[millernumber1]

Never said anything about Tynion. It's King I'm concerned about and his "There's a reason Cassandra Cain isn't here" quote regarding Batman Annual #2.

I don't think that is an indicator of death - I still think she is on a secret mission.

I don't know about any King quote, but as far as 'Tec goes there's no foreshadowing that I can see that points to Cass's demise. She's just in a very bad place emotionally, losing Basil, and feeling completely betrayed by Kate (who she was also fairly close with and now thinks wants her dead).

I am somewhat confused about Steph though, in the Batwoman Rebirth first issue there was a flashback/forward(?) of Steph getting teary-eyed and asking Kate if she was leaving. This indicated that Steph and Kate were going to get closer, but it hasn't happened - and time is pretty much up for them to get close (in 'Tec anyway).

Well, I think that was likely something Tynion wanted to get to that Bennett hasn't gotten to yet (or changed so it will never happen).

[The Dying Detective]

I can definitely believe Tynion made the mistake with Steph. He's doing the exact same dynamic with Tim right now, but because Tim has a focal point for the last several arcs rather than a pop up issue every now and then, it's much more successful.

Yeah well this is Tynion's last chance to get something right the only arc I really liked was A Lonely Place of Living I just hope that the plans he has for Stephanie leave a strong enough impact that the next writer will want to use her. Because if he can make her likable enough then the next writer will want her.

[Assam]

Yeah well this is Tynion's last chance to get something right

If I had to make a bet, I'd say Steph is going to make an appearance in #977, but she won't actually get involved in the plot again till #978.

the only arc I really liked was A Lonely Place of Living

It would take a re-read of both for me to decide whether I think Lonely Place of Living or Fall of the Batmen was the worst arc of Tynion's run. (Just based on the first issue, I don't think it's gonna be Batmen Eternal) I'm currently leaning more towards Lonely Place as while I think there are far more things wrong with FotB, some of the emotional moments did land and there were some small bits of clever storytelling. Lonely Place was just a big nothing burger.

I just hope that the plans he has for Stephanie leave a strong enough impact that the next writer will want to use her. Because if he can make her likable enough then the next writer will want her.

That's really not how that works dude. If Steph is staying out of limbo, it isn't gonna be in non-Tynion 'Tec.