Waffletastic Stephanie Brown Appreciation (Spoiler/Robin/Batgirl/Spoiler again)

[millernumber1]

Im recognizing that YJ might not be a real hope for Steph, nor a place where she could really succeed.

I don't see how that answers my question. It may be factually true, but it's not appreciation.

[Godlike13]

Im appreciating Steph and YJ's situation.

[millernumber1]

Im appreciating Steph and YJ's situation.

An appreciation thread uses the more common definition of the word: "the recognition and enjoyment of the good qualities of someone or something," not the second, "a full understanding of a situation" (and definitely not the third, "increase in monetary value").

What really bothers me about the first post I responded to:

I think its wishful thinking that Steph would have much of a role in a YJ series, and even if she was in it I have a hard time seeing that she would get much focused when most of those guys need quite a bit of work themselves. And if she did get focuse I could see YJ fans turning on her.

It is true that Steph has never been on a Young Justice or Teen Titans or Titans teem, and because of that track record, there's a very good reason to believe that the trend will continue. However, when Assam said the same thing, they said:

Getting a bit more pessimistic about Steph's future.

Pessimism indicates that they think it's a sad or bad thing, not just a fact. When you post facts about how a character will be screwed in an appreciation thread, it feels very much like either you don't care that it's bad for the character, or you think it's good that it's happening. Appreciation means positive, not facts.

Furthermore, you say that "most of those guys need quite a bit of work themselves." Yes, they do. But the implication is that Steph doesn't deserve it, and they do.

Lastly, YJ fans turning on her - again the implication that they would be right to do so. Like she doesn't deserve to be there. Maybe you meant that a bad writer would write her badly - but if so, stating it in a way that shows you appreciate (as in recognize and enjoy her good qualities) rather than implying that you just want Steph fans to know their place, and stop hoping for things that you don't think they should get.

[Godlike13]

Facts are just facts. They are not inherently negative or positive. You are making assumptions, and projecting your own insecurities here.

First Steph not being in YJ is not necessarily a bad or negative thing IMO. Because i don't want to see Steph in a place that i don't think will benefit her, and i don't want to see Steph in a place i don't believe she will be able to succeed. YJ IMO is not a place i think will benefit Steph or will be a place she could really succeed.

Second what i was actually implying is that there are only so many pages, and as the outsider Steph will most likely fall in priority to the core characters that the YJ comic was originally built around. A core in which she was not, and never has been a part of. Which has nothing to do with whether or not she deserves it.

And thirdly, YJ fans turning on her is something thats common within fandom. Look at Harper Row. Steph would be an outsider when it comes to YJ, and those characters fans are just as desperate to see DC do something with them. Which again has nothing to do with what Steph does or doesn't deserve.

You are being way too defensive here. My actual motivation is that im not convince that a YJ book is even gonna happen, and even if it does, as someone who likes Steph, i wouldn't want to see her in it as i don't believe it would be a place that is actually gonna help her. Understand my opinion on YJ and that group of characters is not great. To be brutally honesty, i think all those character are dead ends (though im perfectly open to letting DC convince me otherwise), and i personally don't want to see Steph anywhere near them. I want Steph to get the hell away from Tim, for her own good.

Now if this against the rules of appreciation threads, i apologize but i personally don't think its it is. In no way is it my intention or motivation to slight Steph with what i have said.

[millernumber1]

You are being way too defensive here. My actual motivation is that im not convince that a YJ book is even gonna happen, and even if it does, as someone who likes Steph, i wouldn't want to see her in a place i don't believe actually gonna help her. Understand my opinion on YJ and that group of character, is not great. To be brutally honesty, i think all those character are dead ends (though im perfectly open to letting DC convince me otherwise), and don't want to see Steph anywhere near them. I want Steph to get the hell away from Tim, for her own good.

Now if this against the rules of appreciation threads, i apologies but i personally don't think its it is. In no way is it my intention to slight Steph with what i have said.

Defending the subject of an appreciation thread is one of the major points of appreciation threads. This forum is thankfully not generally home to frequent and intense anti-Steph posts, but they do show up even here. And you don't have to go far to find people who often say they wish Steph stayed dead or erased, or that she deserved what Black Mask did, or even that they just think she's always been incredibly annoying (previous to the hotly debated appearances in Detective Comics for the past year and a half).

I appreciate that you do not intend to slight Steph.

[berserkerclaw]

i really hope a mini series or ongoing starring Steph and Tim happens. i like what they planned to do after quitting the Knights

[millernumber1]

i really hope a mini series or ongoing starring Steph and Tim happens. i like what they planned to do after quitting the Knights

That would be pretty cool! I wonder if any tie-ins to Doomsday Clock will happen closer to its ending.

[The Dying Detective]

That would be pretty cool! I wonder if any tie-ins to Doomsday Clock will happen closer to its ending.

There are supposed to be no tie-in to Doomsday Clock though I'm beginning to wonder whether that is wise at this point because for it to work Johns needs the editorial to work with him.

[millernumber1]

There are supposed to be no tie-in to Doomsday Clock though I'm beginning to wonder whether that is wise at this point because for it to work Johns needs the editorial to work with him.

I don't think a committment to no tie-ins will really hold two full years after the series launches, and they want to launch some new stuff. Look at New Age of Heroes - I could see at least Legion of Super Heros spinning out/tying into Doomsday Clock, and a Spoiler/Red Robin detective book looking at the lost time would also seem sensible.

[The Dying Detective]

I don't think a committment to no tie-ins will really hold two full years after the series launches, and they want to launch some new stuff. Look at New Age of Heroes - I could see at least Legion of Super Heros spinning out/tying into Doomsday Clock, and a Spoiler/Red Robin detective book looking at the lost time would also seem sensible.

Well for all we know Doomsday Clock takes place eight months and a year into the future so we should I think know Tim and Stephanie's fate by then I mean Tim was so important to it he got taken off the board for a while. I should hope that Tim would also have a role to play aside from Batman, Superman, and the Flashes. And I hope I am reasoning this right but I am sure the Red Robin/Spoiler book might be coming out before it ends.

[millernumber1]

Well for all we know Doomsday Clock takes place eight months and a year into the future so we should I think know Tim and Stephanie's fate by then I mean Tim was so important to it he got taken off the board for a while. I should hope that Tim would also have a role to play aside from Batman, Superman, and the Flashes. And I hope I am reasoning this right but I am sure the Red Robin/Spoiler book might be coming out before it ends.

We'll have to wait and see. What seems logical to Steph fans is almost never what seems logical to editorial.

[The Dying Detective]

We'll have to wait and see. What seems logical to Steph fans is almost never what seems logical to editorial.

Unfortunately for the editorial Tim and Stephanie are a package deal at the moment I doubt they could foolish enough to ignore that. And look on the bright side at least Didio is calling the shots on editorial if it were up to him he'll probably never include her at all.

[millernumber1]

Unfortunately for the editorial Tim and Stephanie are a package deal at the moment I doubt they could foolish enough to ignore that. And look on the bright side at least Didio is calling the shots on editorial if it were up to him he'll probably never include her at all.

Honestly, I don't think that's the case except for very unimaginative writers and editors. Any good writer would probably think of a story for Steph, and if Tim worked, they'd put her in, if not, they wouldn't.

[The Dying Detective]

Honestly, I don't think that's the case except for very unimaginative writers and editors. Any good writer would probably think of a story for Steph, and if Tim worked, they'd put her in, if not, they wouldn't.

I'm just saying that Tim is actually very important right now for Stephanie to be used in a story at all. With how important Tim is to DC's current plans DC will be forced to consider giving Stephanie a role or die trying.

[millernumber1]

I'm just saying that Tim is actually very important right now for Stephanie to be used in a story at all. With how important Tim is to DC's current plans DC will be forced to consider giving Stephanie a role or die trying.

I think that a lot of less imaginative writers would think that. And I hope that if they want to use Tim, they will use Steph. (I hope there are writers who would die for Steph )