Grayson #3 Preview/Discussion

[M L A]

I guess I'm missing something from your reasoning. Why couldn't Dick have just become another costumed hero? The Nightwing persona is blown, yes, but what if he became Dark Wing with a mask? Wouldn't that be preferable to running around w/o a mask? And again, it doesn't answer why he would want to work for Spyral - here is a guy who in New 52 continuity has been Robin, Nightwing and Batman for 5-6 years at this point - why would he want to get involved with an organization that blows other heroes' cover, kills people and and dabbles in mind control? And they know he has been an ally of the Bat for a long time, why would Bruce cut him loose just because he was kidnapped, tortured and supposedly killed?

For your first question, don't think about it in the comic world. Yes, they gave us the reason that only Bruce trusts him to get it done or whatever and he's taking advantage of the world thinking he's dead. But real world reasoning is it wouldn't make sense to have him stop being a vigilante with a name people know him as and become one with a new name. They wanted to branch out and try other things and Dick simply changing his costume and name while doing literally the same thing doesn't help. Him becoming a spy and trying out this genre is branching out. I know people have been saying (me included lol) that him being a spy was a last minute decision, but apparently it wasn't because Seeley was contacted months before (I think around Forever Evil started maybe?). So they've apparently had this on their mind for a while.

[jules]

I guess I'm missing something from your reasoning. Why couldn't Dick have just become another costumed hero? The Nightwing persona is blown, yes, but what if he became Dark Wing with a mask? Wouldn't that be preferable to running around w/o a mask? And again, it doesn't answer why he would want to work for Spyral - here is a guy who in New 52 continuity has been Robin, Nightwing and Batman for 5-6 years at this point - why would he want to get involved with an organization that blows other heroes' cover, kills people and and dabbles in mind control? And they know he has been an ally of the Bat for a long time, why would Bruce cut him loose just because he was kidnapped, tortured and supposedly killed?

Well, obviously he could adopt another costumed identity. But if a new hero of the same apparent age, height, body type and skill set popped up in Gotham working with Batman, you'd think Dick Grayson would be the obvious suspect at this point. So it might just be that they think he's retired from working with Batman, either temporarily or permanently. Or if they don't actually think it, because the "tsuchigumo" trigger word suggests that they don't entirely trust him, then that's the story he's selling them.

Yes, I would assume that's where they are going with it because otherwise either Spyral or Bats look like complete dopes. However, that does raise the ugly spector that for the next 25 years we will be reading stories not knowing whether DG is good or bad, under mind control or not or could be dropped by a single word in an instant.

My theory is that debugging the Spyral trigger words is what Midnighter and his friend are there for. Once he figures out that Dick is more ally than enemy, of course.

[byrd156]

For your first question, don't think about it in the comic world. Yes, they gave us the reason that only Bruce trusts him to get it done or whatever and he's taking advantage of the world thinking he's dead. But real world reasoning is it wouldn't make sense to have him stop being a vigilante with a name people know him as and become one with a new name. They wanted to branch out and try other things and Dick simply changing his costume and name while doing literally the same thing doesn't help. Him becoming a spy and trying out this genre is branching out. I know people have been saying (me included lol) that him being a spy was a last minute decision, but apparently it wasn't because Seeley was contacted months before (I think around Forever Evil started maybe?). So they've apparently had this on their mind for a while.

Yeah, but hero turned spy has already been done before. Remember Roy Harper did this before.

[jules]

Yeah, but hero turned spy has already been done before. Remember Roy Harper did this before.

He did, but it pretty much all happened off panel. Sending Roy off to do the rounds of the government and spy agencies was what they did with him when they didn't have a slot available for him in the Titans or Green Arrow book. When he did show up, he was generally off duty (or partly so) and teaming up with old friends to do a bit of hero stuff for a change.

[Godlike13]

Plus its Roy. Who gives a crap what he did.

[byrd156]

Plus its Roy. Who gives a crap what he did.

I care, Roy is one of my favorite comic book characters. Granted I hate the New 52 version but that's beside the point.

[byrd156]

He did, but it pretty much all happened off panel. Sending Roy off to do the rounds of the government and spy agencies was what they did with him when they didn't have a slot available for him in the Titans or Green Arrow book. When he did show up, he was generally off duty (or partly so) and teaming up with old friends to do a bit of hero stuff for a change.

There were a few mini series where it showed Roy doing spy things, I don't remember the names. Though the one I remeber the best was when he took his agency down by making his team look bad.

[Fuzzy Cactus]

The thing is that Roy Harper can't sell a solo series with his last name alone.

[oasis1313]

For your first question, don't think about it in the comic world. Yes, they gave us the reason that only Bruce trusts him to get it done or whatever and he's taking advantage of the world thinking he's dead. But real world reasoning is it wouldn't make sense to have him stop being a vigilante with a name people know him as and become one with a new name. They wanted to branch out and try other things and Dick simply changing his costume and name while doing literally the same thing doesn't help. Him becoming a spy and trying out this genre is branching out. I know people have been saying (me included lol) that him being a spy was a last minute decision, but apparently it wasn't because Seeley was contacted months before (I think around Forever Evil started maybe?). So they've apparently had this on their mind for a while.

Maybe it went like this: Didio had been reading "Hamlet" and thought it'd be cool for Dick to be banished with Bruce saying, "Get thee to a nunnery!" But Dick would be a disaster in a convent, so he was sent to a girls' school instead.

[Fuzzy Cactus]

Okay whose brilliant idea was it to send Dick to an all-girls school?

[jules]

Okay whose brilliant idea was it to send Dick to an all-girls school?

The girls?

[byrd156]

The thing is that Roy Harper can't sell a solo series with his last name alone.

True, but I never said he could. All I said was that Roy already did the hero turned spy thing.

[gonne]

I guess I'm missing something from your reasoning. Why couldn't Dick have just become another costumed hero? The Nightwing persona is blown, yes, but what if he became Dark Wing with a mask? Wouldn't that be preferable to running around w/o a mask? And again, it doesn't answer why he would want to work for Spyral - here is a guy who in New 52 continuity has been Robin, Nightwing and Batman for 5-6 years at this point - why would he want to get involved with an organization that blows other heroes' cover, kills people and and dabbles in mind control? And they know he has been an ally of the Bat for a long time, why would Bruce cut him loose just because he was kidnapped, tortured and supposedly killed?

The actual issue isn't that he can't be Nightwing or Darkwing or whatever, it's that he can't be Dick Grayson. The safety given by having a secret identity is gone, and any attempt at a civilian identity would end in disaster, with every kind of goon or all-out villain going after him or his friends for revenge or simply to make a name for themselves. He could try plastic surgery, I guess, but I bet that would make a lot of fans angry. (And with reason. Don't touch his pretty, pretty face, DC!) He'd still need to be cut off from the Batfamily for the foreseeable future, to safeguard their identities, so those books would be about the same, just with slightly less Bruce doucheiness. So I think he did offer Spyral a plausible reason to join them: his life as Dick Grayson is basically over, and with Spyral he can still fight for the Greater Good(TM) (like those Fist of Cain guys, and stopping cannibal doctors) while still having his own face and identity, somewhat. Not that they bought it, necessarily, and Dick knows it, but isn't that the fun of spy stories?

I'm not really sold on how it all fits together, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[The World]

I'll be the outlier here and say that while I enjoyed the Dick punchline my favorite part might have been the part about the guy with gun barrels for eyeballs. This book is so ridiculous I love it.

[Godlike13]

I'll be the outlier here and say that while I enjoyed the Dick punchline my favorite part might have been the part about the guy with gun barrels for eyeballs. This book is so ridiculous I love it.

They took the gun issue and made a villian out of it.