1. #73351
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    Back in New Avengers during the Incursions. Everyone was pretty much an emotional wreck at that point in the story and T'Challa threw a tantrum when Namor blew up a planet knowing there were probably innocent people there.
    THAT actually bothered me more than him crying over not being able to detomate the bombs.

    I can buy him, or anyone else for that matter being unwilling to murder billions of innocent people even though at that point there was no other choice and it needed to be done. Not everyone has it in them to commit mass murder. And usually that's a very good thing. Usually.

    But I thought T'Challa attacking Namor for doing the very thing he was trying to do 30 seconds ago was sort of lame. I get he was emotional and he had SEVERE pre-existing issues with Namor, but still... this is what they were here to do.

  2. #73352
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    I can roll with the cry. not how i personally would have done it but I can roll with it.

    Being mad at Namor for doing what they all thought they can do was beyond idiotic though.

    But Hickman used T'challa and Wakanda as a way to push the story where he wanted it to go. Namor had to be attacked and kicked out of the illuminati there so that he could form the Cabal. So he used T'challa to do it, characterization be damned.
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  3. #73353
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    I can roll with the cry. not how i personally would have done it but I can roll with it.

    Being mad at Namor for doing what they all thought they can do was beyond idiotic though.

    But Hickman used T'challa and Wakanda as a way to push the story where he wanted it to go. Namor had to be attacked and kicked out of the illuminati there so that he could form the Cabal. So he used T'challa to do it, characterization be damned.
    The upside being it gave him a feat (which perhaps is why some are more forgiving of this scene than the dad one even though I agree this one makes him look worse). He shows prep by showing new tech and beating the snot out of Namor.

    But yeah ... It was a tantrum. I can ALMOST but it given what he's going through and the fact that he wants Namor dead anyways. But it was still ridiculously hypocritical.

  4. #73354
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    That was one of the things which annoyed me about the Illuminati.. their inability to not see them being able to detonate the bomb a mile away. Later in Time Runs Out, they brag to Steve how they are so smart they are capable of predicting Steves actions with 90% probability or whatever... but they didn't bother using that intellect to bother asking whether or not they were actually willing to detonate the bombs they were busy building.

    Though I guess that's why Namor was needed. He was their ace in the hole in case any of them got cold feet. T'Challa told his father they needed Namor... and he ended up being right.
    The Illuminati understood everything but their own pre-existing personality issues.

    They thought they could get Captain America to sign off on premeditated mass murder.

    They thought they could condone genocide in self defense (other than the char who was already a mass murderer).

    They thought they could get Namor to play nice in a group setting without Captain America around to calm him down(Namor treats his old war buddies better than everybody else).

    They thought they could tell Doctor Doom to sit down and shut up and that he actually would do it.

    But everybody on that team has a rep for being somewhat arrogant (other than the Beast, maybe).

    Which...works if you aren't invested in seeing these character treated like icons with an innate sense of right and wrong.

    So it was interesting to see what a team of commanding Reed Richards, Doc Strange, Beast and T'Challa types would get up to without the Caps, Hawkeyes, Sue Richards and Jean Greys around group to counterbalance them.

    And it got ugly.

  5. #73355

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    The Illuminati understood everything but their own pre-existing personality issues.

    They thought they could get Captain America to sign off on premeditated mass murder.

    They thought they could condone genocide in self defense (other than the char who was already a mass murderer).

    They thought they could get Namor to play nice in a group setting without Captain America around to calm him down(Namor treats his old war buddies better than everybody else).

    They thought they could tell Doctor Doom to sit down and shut up and that he actually would do it.

    But everybody on that team has a rep for being somewhat arrogant (other than the Beast, maybe).

    Which...works if you aren't invested in seeing these character treated like icons with an innate sense of right and wrong.

    So it was interesting to see what a team of commanding Reed Richards, Doc Strange, Beast and T'Challa types would get up to without the Caps, Hawkeyes, Sue Richards and Jean Greys around group to counterbalance them.

    And it got ugly.
    Bold was a big takeaway I got from the Hickman run as well.

  6. #73356
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    The Illuminati understood everything but their own pre-existing personality issues.

    They thought they could get Captain America to sign off on premeditated mass murder.

    They thought they could condone genocide in self defense (other than the char who was already a mass murderer).

    They thought they could get Namor to play nice in a group setting without Captain America around to calm him down(Namor treats his old war buddies better than everybody else).

    They thought they could tell Doctor Doom to sit down and shut up and that he actually would do it.

    But everybody on that team has a rep for being somewhat arrogant (other than the Beast, maybe).

    Which...works if you aren't invested in seeing these character treated like icons with an innate sense of right and wrong.

    So it was interesting to see what a team of commanding Reed Richards, Doc Strange, Beast and T'Challa types would get up to without the Caps, Hawkeyes, Sue Richards and Jean Greys around group to counterbalance them.

    And it got ugly.
    That's what makes the Illuminati fun though... seeing these characters without their usual constraints. In secrecy from the public, their peers and their loved ones, we can see how these characters are in a void. And often it's a bit of a train wreck... which perhaps is the point.

    Course, as fun at it is to see it can also make them seem unlikable at times. But really, by the end of Hickmans run everyone seemed unlikable. Even the Caps and the Hawkeyes. But I suppose that was sort of the point of the story ... seeing everyone at their worst.

  7. #73357
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    He cried back in Hickman's New Avengers 21. An incursion was about to destroy 2 universes, but T'Challa could not bring himself to murder billions of innocent people in order to save everyone.

    Attachment 66000

    I personally thought his reaction was understandable, given the circumstances.
    Interesting that T'Challa is usually crying when he tells his father that his father is wrong.

  8. #73358
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    Quote Originally Posted by SKJoker View Post
    Interesting that T'Challa is usually crying when he tells his father that his father is wrong.
    No doubt T'Challa has some daddy issues (like one might expect after seeing their father murdered at a young age).

    It's one of the few triggers which I think can get past his poker face.

  9. #73359
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    this is my T'Challa




    I don't need him to be 200 steps ahead and have counter plans after counter plans (although a few can't hurt). I just need him to be the voice of reason and common sense. Thankfully EMH and MCU T'Challa adhere to this
    The J-man

    I post via my phone a lot, therefore I make the occasional grammatical error. Not an excuse just forewarning you. Feel free to call me out I won't mind.

  10. #73360
    Astonishing Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabare View Post
    this is my T'Challa




    I don't need him to be 200 steps ahead and have counter plans after counter plans (although a few can't hurt). I just need him to be the voice of reason and common sense. Thankfully EMH and MCU T'Challa adhere to this
    This might be the best comic Bendis wrote.

  11. #73361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    This might be the best comic Bendis wrote.
    We should be grateful that, of all the characters Bendis didn't know how to write, that at least with Panther he admitted as much to himself.

  12. #73362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    This might be the best comic Bendis wrote.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    We should be grateful that, of all the characters Bendis didn't know how to write, that at least with Panther he admitted as much to himself.
    Yeah, every other time he's written Panther, it is really cringe.
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  13. #73363
    Incredible Member Lord Morph's Avatar
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    I didn't know the trail by combat aspect of Wakandan tradition would draw such criticism. Ive been seeing come up quite a bit during online discussions of the film.

  14. #73364
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Morph View Post
    I didn't know the trail by combat aspect of Wakandan tradition would draw such criticism. Ive been seeing come up quite a bit during online discussions of the film.
    Coates disease. Some people unable to handle FICTION.

    At least the MCU verse gives people a chance by depowering the Black Panther. Comic verse, you have to defeat the dude who has super powers lol.

    Trial by combats are cool. Do they make sense? I think you could argue it could if you expect your king to be on the front lines and protect the country.

    But who cares... it's cool lol.

    Maybe by BP3 we can get rid of it all, install a democracy with three branches and such too /s
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  15. #73365
    Incredible Member Lord Morph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Coates disease. Some people unable to handle FICTION.

    At least the MCU verse gives people a chance by depowering the Black Panther. Comic verse, you have to defeat the dude who has super powers lol.

    Trial by combats are cool. Do they make sense? I think you could argue it could if you expect your king to be on the front lines and protect the country.

    But who cares... it's cool lol.

    Maybe by BP3 we can get rid of it all, install a democracy with three branches and such too /s
    Exactly it's cool within a fictional context just like monarchies, kingdoms in general .etc
    I've noticed people are picky and choosy about what they roll with. No one criticises Atlantis, Asgard, Latveria. etc for still having a monarchical system but Wakanda? Can't have that.

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