Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[Double 0]

Hmmm... interesting argument.




Was Matt characterized correctly (or maybe more important to thsi discussion, how fans liked?) during that transition?

I think it may be... easier on fans to go from "dark gloomy" to "more fun" than the other way around.

Mileage may vary on that. I remember a metric ton of complaints during and I think before Shadowlands. Not sky is falling, but definitely not liking the direction Matt was going.

I agree on the delays, they don't help at all. Thankfully it wasn't a month long one. But that and the artist shift is a bad look imo.

I also agree that the first issue, and I'd even argue the first arc, should have been lighter and kick ass, with hints of the fall breaking through. A real jump on point. Not the story Coates wants to tell though, but imo, an inexperienced move.

I think Coates should have done research on the climate of the industry a bit more. At least the black end. The craft is there, the industry awareness not as much. But I want to see where this story goes regardless.

If Spidey is a big influence as he said, then he should remember that Spidey's triumpths are can be just as memorable as his tragedies. If not more so.

[ed2962]

Mileage may vary on that. I remember a metric ton of complaints during and I think before Shadowlands. Not sky is falling, but definitely not liking the direction Matt was going.

I agree on the delays, they don't help at all. Thankfully it wasn't a month long one. But that and the artist shift is a bad look imo.

I also agree that the first issue, and I'd even argue the first arc, should have been lighter and kick ass, with hints of the fall breaking through. A real jump on point. Not the story Coates wants to tell though, but imo, an inexperienced move.

I think Coates should have done research on the climate of the industry a bit more. At least the black end. The craft is there, the industry awareness not as much. But I want to see where this story goes regardless.

If Spidey is a big influence as he said, then he should remember that Spidey's triumpths are can be just as memorable as his tragedies. If not more so.

I think that's on the editors though. It's their job to gauge fan reaction and market trends. They're the ones who have the power to say, "we like this but we just did a revolution story, do you have something else you can put your ideas in?"

[Double 0]

I think that's on the editors though. It's their job to gauge fan reaction and market trends. They're the ones who have the power to say, "we like this but we just did a revolution story, do you have something else you can put your ideas in?"

Great point. I mean, if the editor of Static or Cyborg can shift a book so much (I can already feel a skyvolt post coming just on the mere mention. LOL, just playing), I'm sure someone could have talked to Coates about restructuring the beginning at least.

But I also think Coates should have taken a look as well. I think he has now, but it would have been better while he was setting up the story.

Then again, he's gaining such a new crowd over to the book I'm not sure if it really needed to be a priority.

[Ezyo1000]

Great point. I mean, if the editor of Static or Cyborg can shift a book so much (I can already feel a skyvolt post coming just on the mere mention. LOL, just playing), I'm sure someone could have talked to Coates about restructuring the beginning at least.

But I also think Coates should have taken a look as well. I think he has now, but it would have been better while he was setting up the story.

Then again, he's gaining such a new crowd over to the book I'm not sure if it really needed to be a priority.

Since his name had fame to it they probably just let him do whatever as opposed to if he was lesser known

[ed2962]

Since his name had fame to it they probably just let him do whatever as opposed to if he was lesser known

I'm sure they give him a lot of leeway. But still you can't just walk in and do whatever you want on certain characters and BP is slowly becoming a high profile hero. Keep in mind, big names have walked off high profile gigs at Marvel cuz they weren't allowed to do the stories they wanted.

[Ezyo1000]

At this point we can only hope that this story had some kick ass moments and that the next arc after these 12 have the fun moments where Coates cuts loose. Because he has to remember this is a comic and comics are about seeing the heroes do cool things are to raise their profiles. If he wants to have a handin making BP like Spiderman is to kid's Then he needs to push for the great moments for T'Challa and have solid wins. I am really hoping he does this because he is signed on for long haul. So he needs to make sure he delivers high octane fun as well as the political and social intrigue

[ed2962]

At this point we can only hope that this story had some kick ass moments and that the next arc after these 12 have the fun moments where Coates cuts loose. Because he has to remember this is a comic and comics are about seeing the heroes do cool things are to raise their profiles. If he wants to have a handin making BP like Spiderman is to kid's Then he needs to push for the great moments for T'Challa and have solid wins. I am really hoping he does this because he is signed on for long haul. So he needs to make sure he delivers high octane fun as well as the political and social intrigue

I think this going to be harder to judge than say maybe the new Moon Knight or Sam/Cap type title cuz this is a 11-12part story. Technically we're still in the first act with is mostly set up. I'd say maybe issue four will be a good place to make a decision on where this is all going. In theory things should really get going around five and build to a great climax.

Time will tell though, I thought Squad Supreme was going to be good and I ended up dropped it after issue two...

[Dboi654]

I think this going to be harder to judge than say maybe the new Moon Knight or Sam/Cap type title cuz this is a 11-12part story. Technically we're still in the first act with is mostly set up. I'd say maybe issue four will be a good place to make a decision on where this is all going. In theory things should really get going around five and build to a great climax.

Time will tell though, I thought Squad Supreme was going to be good and I ended up dropped it after issue two...

Funny you say that because in an interview with Coates, he said around issue 4 was when he was immersed in the story telling aspect of the whole 12 part arc. Can't remember the interview but he said it himself

[Double 0]

I think this going to be harder to judge than say maybe the new Moon Knight or Sam/Cap type title cuz this is a 11-12part story. Technically we're still in the first act with is mostly set up. I'd say maybe issue four will be a good place to make a decision on where this is all going. In theory things should really get going around five and build to a great climax.

Time will tell though, I thought Squad Supreme was going to be good and I ended up dropped it after issue two...

Personally it'll be easier for me since I bought all 12 issues already, but for others buying singles, I'd say if they aren't interested, stop buying but listen to spoilers until they hear something great.

But Squadron Supreme is a VERY good point. That book started with a hook and a half, but that goodwill died on it's ass.

[MindofShadow]

To keep the sales train going....

I think there have been a bunch of smallish mistakes already to maximize sales

- the delays i already mentioned

- not releasing issue 1 in february. Not only is bp and bhm ajust fit, but that would have given the movie crowd some back issues to check out

- not starting with a more action packed first mini arc. Use that arc to introduce ramonda. Use it to introduce aneka and ayo as doras on a mission with tchalla. Thatway, when **** fully hits the fan in wakanda, it feels better develooed. We care more when aneka snaps a bit and ayo deserts and frees them. It would make the inevitable MA vs tchalla fight mean more...

- not tying into events. Events are auto sales boosts that stop the general slow decline all books go through. Two of tchallas big rogues came back in pleasant hill... that should be addressed to at least a minor extent. He is right in the middle if CW... we shoukd be getting debates among wakandas leaders on what shoukd be done about Ulysses. Should he be used as an asset? Should he be eliminated? Is he a threat to Wakanda? Should ambassadors be sent to atillian to discuss this? Shoukd studies be ran on him in wakanda? There is a lot of meat there to chew on. Make wakanda important in the mu

Yes.. events derail books... but so what? So do bad sales. Isolating a book is not wise long term. Learn fromhow Ewing treats events.

[MindofShadow]

Personally it'll be easier for me since I bought all 12 issues already, but for others buying singles, I'd say if they aren't interested, stop buying but listen to spoilers until they hear something great.

But Squadron Supreme is a VERY good point. That book started with a hook and a half, but that goodwill died on it's ass.

Im in all 12 as well. Ill ride or die with Tchalla

SS is one of the most bizarre books ive seen.

[Ezyo1000]

Funny you say that because in an interview with Coates, he said around issue 4 was when he was immersed in the story telling aspect of the whole 12 part arc. Can't remember the interview but he said it himself

Well you figure issues 1-3/4 are build up, 5-8 everything hits the fan/coming to the climax, 9-11 the climax/resolution. That's what I expected tbh.

To keep the sales train going....

I think there have been a bunch of smallish mistakes already to maximize sales

- the delays i already mentioned

- not releasing issue 1 in february. Not only is bp and bhm ajust fit, but that would have given the movie crowd some back issues to check out

- not starting with a more action packed first mini arc. Use that arc to introduce ramonda. Use it to introduce aneka and ayo as doras on a mission with tchalla. Thatway, when **** fully hits the fan in wakanda, it feels better develooed. We care more when aneka snaps a bit and ayo deserts and frees them. It would make the inevitable MA vs tchalla fight mean more...

- not tying into events. Events are auto sales boosts that stop the general slow decline all books go through. Two of tchallas big rogues came back in pleasant hill... that should be addressed to at least a minor extent. He is right in the middle if CW... we shoukd be getting debates among wakandas leaders on what shoukd be done about Ulysses. Should he be used as an asset? Should he be eliminated? Is he a threat to Wakanda? Should ambassadors be sent to atillian to discuss this? Shoukd studies be ran on him in wakanda? There is a lot of meat there to chew on. Make wakanda important in the mu

Yes.. events derail books... but so what? So do bad sales. Isolating a book is not wise long term. Learn fromhow Ewing treats events.

Yes learn From Hudlin's run. He had the right formula , duplicate that, guest appearances, tie ins with event's. Go on some grand fun adventures. I would say even now despite the arc there should be an offshoot tie in to cw ll. The mention earlier if a IM and hulk mini adventure would be pretty badass too. I hope they find a way to maintain 77k++ and up sales monthly because I want this to work out. I think everyone does and if Coates cones correct. Even the people most bothered will cone around

[Rumble]

I'll say this about sales: this whole Coates being directly or largely responsible for the sales because of his own audience he was supposedly bringing in (as has been the narrative in the past)... ehhhh. I was more on the 'let's wait and see on that' stance.

250-300k sales... to 77k in 2 issues. And that 200k+ start? Invincible Ironman #1 had that, so did Amazing Spider-man #1, the DC Rebirth thing, every Star Wars #1 book damn near, the core Secret War books, and no doubt at least the first Civil War II issue. Basically every book that was super hyped and promoted as a brand new start or event with a billion variant covers had the same comic audience snatchin up that #1 issue. So i give marvel (but really the MCU/Disney) a lot of credit in the hype and promotion of black panther. He had everyone's complete and undivided attention.

But i wouldn't be surprised if most of those buyers contributing to that 250-300k couldn't point out Coates from whoever the writer is from Amazing Spider-Man #1 that also did 200k+, or name a single book Coates wrote. They heard the hype, scooped up issue 1, THE variant covers, thought the story was aight but weren't hooked, and bounced. Now we'll see what these 77k issue 2 readers felt like, once issue 3 numbers comes in. And what the readership is lookin like come the halfway mark. Point is, while the hype around Coates added to some of it (i assume), the BP hype was coming regardless, and imo it should have been on capitalizing on it, and hooking that audience.. not takin for granted that they'd just follow whatever Coates writes. Not sayin that's what Marvel did but goes back to the direction of the current story that Coates wanted.

[Rumble]

Well you figure issues 1-3/4 are build up, 5-8 everything hits the fan/coming to the climax, 9-11 the climax/resolution. That's what I expected tbh.



Yes learn From Hudlin's run. He had the right formula , duplicate that, guest appearances, tie ins with event's. Go on some grand fun adventures. I would say even now despite the arc there should be an offshoot tie in to cw ll. The mention earlier if a IM and hulk mini adventure would be pretty badass too. I hope they find a way to maintain 77k++ and up sales monthly because I want this to work out. I think everyone does and if Coates cones correct. Even the people most bothered will cone around

I brought up Bendis in my earlier rant but Hudlin also had that same type of business savvy. Similar to Bendis, you can criticize the technical aspects of Hudlin's run (dialogue, characterizations, continuity, or whatever) but he had a firm conceptual understanding for how things needed to be played in elevating the character. Possibly due to his experience in film and television where you likely have to study the marketing, promotion, delivery and hook/bait of capturing an audience's attention as quickly and firmly as possible.

[MindofShadow]

I'll say this about sales: this whole Coates being directly or largely responsible for the sales because of his own audience he was supposedly bringing in (as has been the narrative in the past)... ehhhh. I was more on the 'let's wait and see on that' stance.

250-300k sales... to 77k in 2 issues. And that 200k+ start? Invincible Ironman #1 had that, so did Amazing Spider-man #1, the DC Rebirth thing, every Star Wars #1 book damn near, the core Secret War books, and no doubt at least the first Civil War II issue. Basically every book that was super hyped and promoted as a brand new start or event with a billion variant covers had the same comic audience snatchin up that #1 issue. So i give marvel (but really the MCU/Disney) a lot of credit in the hype and promotion of black panther. He had everyone's complete and undivided attention.

But i wouldn't be surprised if most of those buyers contributing to that 250-300k couldn't point out Coates from whoever the writer is from Amazing Spider-Man #1 that also did 200k+, or name a single book Coates wrote. They heard the hype, scooped up issue 1, THE variant covers, thought the story was aight but weren't hooked, and bounced. Now we'll see what these 77k issue 2 readers felt like, once issue 3 numbers comes in. And what the readership is lookin like come the halfway mark. Point is, while the hype around Coates added to some of it (i assume), the BP hype was coming regardless, and imo it should have been on capitalizing on it, and hooking that audience.. not takin for granted that they'd just follow whatever Coates writes. Not sayin that's what Marvel did but goes back to the direction of the current story that Coates wanted.

Yeah idk tho... im, asm, star wars, secret wars, rebirth... thats like a list characters and properties peaking tho.

C list tchalla doing that is mucho impressive. I think coates did bring in some sort of audience... not only bc who he is but also... he was in his grind before #1 came out. Articles, twitter, podcasts.. he put in work

Buuuuuuuut... will they stay? Not just bc they may or may not likeca story... but do they even like comics lol? Is it justva fad to them and they move on? Do they think 5 bucks for 3 mins of entertainment is stupid? Once all the memes are used uo, do they move on?

Who knows really. Daredevil, low 40 range is a super success... not tge a list tier we dream of but very successful this day and age.

Drop into cap marvel range and its panic mode lol