Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[Realdealholy]

I mean, the book isn't blowing me away but sales wise, it isn't broken at all.

Its tracking better than Bendis Iron Man (which fll from 279K to 66K) and Dr Strange (145K to 65K)

So, dropping from 275+ K to 77K is actually... really really good comparatively.

For comparisons sake as well

Iron Man #3 59K

Dr Strange #3 57K

It is way too early, but that did better after 2 issues since SW is Amazing Spider-Man

Not only that, the 77k for #2 is the second highest-selling BP issue ever, second only to #1.

A rather interesting situation, considering my current feelings for the Coates run.

[MindofShadow]

possibly, I dont know if he dislikes T'Challa as if he did then i dont see why he would agree to write his series for years to come, I think he just likes stories of conflict like this or maybe this is just a story he wanted to tell at some point and had the opportunity to do so. But i do think he is looking at the mythos with a little too much real life comparisons involved. Its possible for T'Challa to have the most advanced nation on earth because its comics, just like Wolverine can be in NY in one book, while all the way across the world in another going at the same time. Or how characters can be apart of multiple teams at once. Comics make it happen because they can. So having Wakanda being how it is due to a Monarch works because this isnt real life, Just like T'Challa having the Dora Milaje and not seeing them as members of his harem.

And, once again, you can blame editorial for some of this.

Someone could have said, "Naw dude, that won't work"

If you take the monarchy away, I don't know how you give it back in the future. Most comic book things can simply be put back rather easily. But RE-establishing a monarchy? I don't see how that would work

[Vic Vega]

In all likelihood the numbers would probably drop even if he did change direction. Or if he started off with a completely different premise. There's no way he was going to sustain 300k.

That aside I think he's better off telling a story he be lives in rather than chasing sales. That usually never works.

There aren't 300K regular readers of cape comics period anymore. Maybe in 1995 there was but not now.

It took the combined efforts of both DC and Marvel's summer crossover specials, a Batman special issue and number ones from Punisher AND Captain America to
knock Black Panther down to number 9 in the charts.

Where it beat out Spider Man, of all things.

I can't see Marvel being anything but really happy about this. Especially since not even Bendis can keep Iron Man in the top 10 these days.

And Ellis is failing with Karnak.

Of course Ellis and Coates have the same problem of slow collaborators.

[MindofShadow]

Not only that, the 77k for #2 is the second highest-selling BP issue ever, second only to #1.

A rather interesting situation, considering my current feelings for the Coates run.

Im startign to feel comic old

That's why my new attitude of just rolling with the punches should help. Just going to treat BP's book like any other book instead of analyzing every thought bubble bc I like the character so much.

[MindofShadow]

There aren't 300K regular readers of cape comics period anymore. Maybe in 1995 there was but not now.

It took the combined efforts of both DC and Marvel's summer crossover specials, a Batman special issue and number ones from Punisher AND Captain America to
knock Black Panther down to number 9 in the charts.

Where it beat out Spider Man, of all things.

I can't see Marvel being anything but really happy about this. Especially since not even Bendis can keep Iron Man in the top 10 these days.

And Ellis is failing with Karnak.

Of course Ellis and Coates have the same problem of slow collaborators.

Exactly.

The delays are likely just Stelfreeze.

If anything, these sales probably give Coates a license to do whatever the hell he wants.

Marvel basically has a few "titles" that always exist, always seem to get rebooted rather fast even if they "fail"

Avengers
X-Men (2 generally)
Captain America
Thor
Iron Man
Hulk
Wolverine
Spider-Man (Parker)
Deadpool
Punisher
Daredevil


If Coates is able to add Black Panther to that list by keeping sales north of 40K... Marvel ain't gonna give two shits about what he does.

[Double 0]

I get why people would be worried about BP's status quo. Especially since the status quos of pretty much every major Marvel hero is radically altered....

Buuut, outside of Shuri retaking the mantle in some form, I really doubt the change everyone is expected will happen and/or be lasting. I mean, none of us are new to this.


And as for the function of the Doras changing, it's changed every major run since introduction, so again, I don't mind.

[XPac]

Coates has made it very clear that he is very new to this medium and that he is concerned with not making comics that "suck". So there is a chance that he has looked at the critiques of his work and made minor changes. It's always possible.

There have been plenty of critics critiquing his book, and overall I'd say his reviews were positive. And I'm sure plenty of people at marvel have given their 2 cents.

Ultimately though you don't want Internet posting boards to dictate your story. The audience votes with text wallet.

[XPac]

I get why people would be worried about BP's status quo. Especially since the status quos of pretty much every major Marvel hero is radically altered....

Buuut, outside of Shuri retaking the mantle in some form, I really doubt the change everyone is expected will happen and/or be lasting. I mean, none of us are new to this.


And as for the function of the Doras changing, it's changed every major run since introduction, so again, I don't mind.

Status quo usually bounces back regardless of what a specific writer chooses to do. There are exceptions ... a generally speaking the guys we see today in large part are in a similar spot to where they were when Stan and Jack first started with them. For better or for worse comics tend to revert to status quo soone or later.

[Vic Vega]

And, once again, you can blame editorial for some of this.

Someone could have said, "Naw dude, that won't work"

If you take the monarchy away, I don't know how you give it back in the future. Most comic book things can simply be put back rather easily. But RE-establishing a monarchy? I don't see how that would work

Think is that T'Challa leading his people is only so interesting when his people are 99% faceless redshirts. And Shuri.

Say what you will about DC's Atlantis, but at least there's Mera and 2 Aqualads and possibly an Aquagirl (I lose track of them) to give a damn about.

If Wakanda were to become a democracy, at least the book would probably get a new supporting cast member out of it: A Prime Minister.

And that would be a by defintion different character beat than the "loyal but somewhat argumentative assistant" that we usually get.

Depending on the situation, a Prime Minister might not have to listen to T'challa at all.

[Kasper Cole]

possibly, I dont know if he dislikes T'Challa as if he did then i dont see why he would agree to write his series for years to come, I think he just likes stories of conflict like this or maybe this is just a story he wanted to tell at some point and had the opportunity to do so. But i do think he is looking at the mythos with a little too much real life comparisons involved. Its possible for T'Challa to have the most advanced nation on earth because its comics, just like Wolverine can be in NY in one book, while all the way across the world in another going at the same time. Or how characters can be apart of multiple teams at once. Comics make it happen because they can. So having Wakanda being how it is due to a Monarch works because this isnt real life, Just like T'Challa having the Dora Milaje and not seeing them as members of his harem.

I really hope things turn around quickly and that it doesn't end with T'Challa looking bad whilst the MA come out looking the most heroic out of eveyone. I also hope that Coates doesn't fall into a trope of "All men are either evil or incompetent and only the women in the story produce results". Because this is T'Challas book, and that category of all men are monsters or incompetent is a slippery slope.

But really it comes down to what happens next. Its early in the game, and the issue with telling these kinds of stories is that your only getting part of it every month and big arcs like this need to be read all at once in trade. I still would of prefered the method mentioned a few pages back by Mind, having the first 1-2 issues be of T'Challa doing some cool things, before getting into this Story.

The reason many of us are saying we feel like he doesn't like the character is because in virtually all the interviews he's done he mostly talks about what he doesn't like about the character and what needs to be changed. He also said T'Challa wasn't on his radar as a kid. Ultimately none of that should be a issue, but so far that's been coming out a lot in his writing.

I have no problem with Coates exploring issues of sexism/misogyny in Wakanda. What I have a problem with is the lead of the book being painted as part of the problem or turning a blind eye to such issues. I've long said that I want to see T'Challa's supporting cast (particularly the women) fleshed out and given more to do, but there's a way to do that without making T'Challa look like an ineffectual leader or making him feel like an afterthought in his own book.

I think Coates severely underestimated just how badly many long time fans needed a story showing T'Challa as a legit superpower within the Marvel universe. Some elements of this story being told would never sit well with some people, but it'd have been MUCH easier to swallow if this wasn't the first arc and if the last story featuring T'Challa didn't end on such a hopeful note.

And you're spot on about Coates possibly trying too hard to ground certain aspects of T'Challa and Wakanda in realism. Obviously some things wouldn't work in the real world, but this isn't the real world. Some of the things Coates has said about the mythology is the same crap we've dealt with unfans saying for years.

I'm giving this book till issue 5 to hook me in and ease my concerns. If things are still going down this path by then i'm dropping the book. I'm not going to campaign against it, or constantly rag on it, I'll just stop reading unless I hear things have turned around from someone whose opinion I trust.

I know some people don't like Ultimates because T'Challa doesn't get much attention, but I actually love that book. I never expected T'Challa to be a central figure in that book, especially in that first arc, but what they've done with him so far is still really good.

[Kasper Cole]

Think is that T'Challa leading his people is only so interesting when his people are 99% faceless redshirts. And Shuri.

Say what you will about DC's Atlantis, but at least there's Mera and 2 Aqualads and possibly an Aquagirl (I lose track of them) to give a damn about.

If Wakanda were to become a democracy, at least the book would probably get a new supporting cast member out of it: A Prime Minister.

And that would be a by defintion different character beat than the "loyal but somewhat argumentative assistant" that we usually get.

Depending on the situation, a Prime Minister might not have to listen to T'challa at all.

They've had characters like that in previous runs, it's just that nobody bothers to use them consistently. A resurrected M'Baku, Hunter, Zawavari, and Shuri all could have played the role of political foils for T'Challa.

T'Challa rule over Wakanda has never been as absolute as some make it seem sometimes. It had been established decades ago that there were ways to challenge T'Challa's authority.

[Kasper Cole]

I get why people would be worried about BP's status quo. Especially since the status quos of pretty much every major Marvel hero is radically altered....

Buuut, outside of Shuri retaking the mantle in some form, I really doubt the change everyone is expected will happen and/or be lasting. I mean, none of us are new to this.

This is true, but lets not act as if T'Challa didn't JUST get the title of King back. This also isn't just him being replaced in the role, Coates has been hinting at a fundamental change to Wakandan society. Stuff like that is harder to roll back, especially on the heels of a line wide quasi reboot.

And as for the function of the Doras changing, it's changed every major run since introduction, so again, I don't mind.

The role of the Dora Milaje has been ever evolving since Priest introduced them. The only concerns I had with Priest's usage of them was that he was initially talking about them and making it seem like he couldn't fathom that T'Challa wouldn't abuse or take advantage of that situation. Priest did a lot of make it clear how T'Challa felt about the Dora Milaje.

The biggest underestimating Coates has made in tackling Black Panther is his assumption that he doesn't have to show the world how great T'Challa is a hero and King. I think him having that view has informed his decision to deconstruct Wakanda and T'Challa yet again, and thinking he can be shown in this light without any significant ramifications.

[4sake Baned]

Stelfreeze art of shuri

https://twitter.com/Stelfreeze/statu...66420038995969

Looks great, still want to see Shuri get a redesign..

[MindofShadow]

[Realdealholy]

Im startign to feel comic old

That's why my new attitude of just rolling with the punches should help. Just going to treat BP's book like any other book instead of analyzing every thought bubble bc I like the character so much.

I'm very slowly starting to lean that direction as well. I'll obviously remain a BP fan and will comment more about BP books than others, but...all we can do is make our voices be heard, vote with our wallets, and hope for the best.

It's quite ironic. The book is selling, its getting good reviews overall, and the BP book is as popular as it has ever been (due to many factors, of course). On paper, its almost everything BP fans wanted. Yet, we are where we are.

The good news is that it will be the MCU that will be setting the status quo in the eyes of...well, the world basically. And so far, BP in the MCU is headed in the right direction.