Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[Mr MajestiK]

Don't really see this as necessary. Were discussing how him regaining the knowledge of the Panthers could be good or not. So the photo really serves no purpose and contributes nothing constructive

I don't even waste my time responding to posts like that for the simple fact that they really have zero relevance to debates/discussions such as the one we're engaging in now.

The points raised by RealdealHoly, Mousergrey and yourself are all valid, on point and most importantly, solidly on topic.

[Realdealholy]

Ewing via the Ultimates brought up the issue. Not us.

[Mr MajestiK]

It did occur earlier in the story. T'Challa was shown discussing the with the panthers about the great society and his fears of having to fight them and even then they were of Hive mind and all of them agreed instead of any sort of debate, it was 10k panthers vs T'challa and thats not realistically how that would of went especially not BPs

A writer would have had to been actually invested in the BP mythos for such a scene to have been depicted in a more logically aesthetic manner.

[Realdealholy]

A writer would have had to been actually invested in the BP mythos for such a scene to have been depicted in a more logically aesthetic manner.

I still think the previous panthers having a heated debate at the 11th hour over the proper choice would have been more dramatic and made more sense. One, because I don't believe 10,000 years worth of individual leaders would have the exact same opinion on the matter, and also, would have made T'Challa's frustration and breakdown more believable and less out of character. Sometimes disagreements happen simply because people are family, not to mention the centuries of philosophical and intellectual development a society goes through. That the first, second, middle, or last panthers all agreed just rings false to me.

The Same could be said about the KotD powers in general. Up until now, no one knew what it entailed and because of that, if he lost it no one would care. which is really just a waste of potential. Like for instance, T'Challa should be able to summon 10,000years of panther knowledge and strength into himself, He may be the smartest out of all the panthers but that doesn't mean he couldn't earn something still, and as for the strength, well he could really gain a ton of physical strength (if thats what hickman meant atleast) from using that power. So if someone wanted to explore that power and not have it just be some cheesy way for him to get his power and title back, then there is value. Just simply erasing it is another notch in the lack of continuity that BP mythos has always suffered from



See That. Would make alot of sense, It is ridiculous to believe that that many Panthers would be of a Hive mind and none would side with T'Challa or have their own separate thoughts on it. Having him knda break down from all the feedback would be more believable at least. thousands of voices in your head could do that

I will say this.

The fact that, as written, none of the Panthers offered an alternative to the bombs, despite thousands of years of knowledge under their belt, was at best a missed opportunity by Hickman (if unintentional) and at worst bad writing.

All the panthers agreeing that the bomb be used when the whole situation went down is one thing. Wakanda had to survive. But that none of them stepped up earlier in their first couple of meetings prior to the incursion to tell T'Challa that there is possibly another way (even if it would've probably failed) is quite strange.

[XPac]

The 11th hour is usually when the debate is hottest.

Problem being at this point there wasn't a whole lot to debate because they had no other options.

Either use the bomb, or do nothing and allow the universe to end. I can buy the BP's unaniously believing option 2 sucks more.

[Realdealholy]

Passive aggressive Thanksgivings?

I don't think Wakandans celebrate thanksgiving, so duking it out would work just as well lol.

[Realdealholy]

Problem being at this point there wasn't a whole lot to debate because they had no other options.

Either use the bomb, or do nothing and allow the universe to end. I can buy the BP's unaniously believing option 2 sucks more.

Yea, at that point the time for debating had long passed. It was use it or die.

[XPac]

There were opportunities to showcase the strength, when they fought Terrax, When he went up against Black Dwarf, and the Great Society. There were times to show it, but the potential was simply wasted.

I know Coates put him that way, But the ANAD preview also put him with KotD powers so we will have to wait and see

Well, if the ANAD preview flat out states he's KOTD then in all likelihood Coates simply isn't quite caught up with the hero.

Course that probably means we won't be seeing him control any zombies in the initial arcs of his solo book.

[XPac]

I will say this.

The fact that, as written, none of the Panthers offered an alternative to the bombs, despite thousands of years of knowledge under their belt, was at best a missed opportunity by Hickman (if unintentional) and at worst bad writing.

All the panthers agreeing that the bomb be used when the whole situation went down is one thing. Wakanda had to survive. But that none of them stepped up earlier in their first couple of meetings prior to the incursion to tell T'Challa that there is possibly another way (even if it would've probably failed) is quite strange.

Hickman wasn't big on showing any alternatives until nearly the end of the story... I imagine the rationale being since none of the alternatives would work it wasn't a great use of screen time exploring them too heavily. That said I would have liked to see more too.

But as far as the specific issue with the incursions... I'm honestly not sure the previous BP's would be all that useful in that sort of thing anyways.

[Realdealholy]

Well, if the ANAD preview flat out states he's KOTD then in all likelihood Coates simply isn't quite caught up with the hero.

Course that probably means we won't be seeing him control any zombies in the initial arcs of his solo book.

Does T'Challa actually control those zombies? Or is it that because he's the KoD, they decide or fell compelled to follow his orders?

[Ezyo1000]

A writer would have had to been actually invested in the BP mythos for such a scene to have been depicted in a more logically aesthetic manner.

Not even just that, but anyone consulting a large number of INDIVIDUALS (Keyword there) would have a mix of opinions, thoughts and ideas. The fact that they were all of one midn saying "So what? kill them" is extremely inaccurate and was more so put that way to push the story Hickman wanted to tell, realistic debating be damned.

It also gave off a bad rep for previous Wakandan leaders being able to said murder billions without bating an eye, especially when you look back at Hudlin's Run, Storm is talking to her son about the previous panther who instead of going to war with the world (even though they would of possibly won had they gone through with it) went a different route all together because he valued Life. So for them to so causally brush aside the issue like it was a no brainer was a poor representation of Wakandan leaders.

[Mr MajestiK]

Hickman wasn't big on showing any alternatives until nearly the end of the story... I imagine the rationale being since none of the alternatives would work it wasn't a great use of screen time exploring them too heavily. That said I would have liked to see more too.

But as far as the specific issue with the incursions... I'm honestly not sure the previous BP's would be all that useful in that sort of thing anyways.

This keeps coming up, but I'm yet to see any rational discussion as to why this particular assumption carries any weight.

We know nothing about what dire situations the the previous Black Panthers faced in ages bygone but bearing in mind the fact that threats such as Galactus and all of the other extraterrestrial races such as the Kree and the Skrulls have civilizations that pre-date any on Earth, who's to say that any of the previous BP's did not face extra-terrestrial or other serious threats in their own respective time periods?

Thinking outside of the box is essential.

[Mr MajestiK]

Does T'Challa actually control those zombies? Or is it that because he's the KoD, they decide or fell compelled to follow his orders?

Namor's thrown Trident helped things along.

[Mr MajestiK]

Not even just that, but anyone consulting a large number of INDIVIDUALS (Keyword there) would have a mix of opinions, thoughts and ideas. The fact that they were all of one midn saying "So what? kill them" is extremely inaccurate and was more so put that way to push the story Hickman wanted to tell, realistic debating be damned.

It also gave off a bad rep for previous Wakandan leaders being able to said murder billions without bating an eye, especially when you look back at Hudlin's Run, Storm is talking to her son about the previous panther who instead of going to war with the world (even though they would of possibly won had they gone through with it) went a different route all together because he valued Life. So for them to so causally brush aside the issue like it was a no brainer was a poor representation of Wakandan leaders.

Well, considering the fact that some supposed BP fans are fond of overlooking Hudlin's run, is it any suprise that Hickman may have chosen to do the same?

[XPac]

Does T'Challa actually control those zombies? Or is it that because he's the KoD, they decide or fell compelled to follow his orders?

I think it was a little bit of both.

He think T'Challa was giving them the option of following him willingly (which annoyed Namor to the point where he did what he did for expediency's sake) but they did mention that there was a complusion to follow him.