Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[Realdealholy]

He clearly has a feminist and LGBT social justice thing going on. I said as much a few days ago and that i have no problem with that in principle... i just haven't liked the last two times we've seen such movements executed (humiliating and burning BP alive by Doom to pave the way for Shuri... and so far what we've seen with the rape/molestation of wakandan women by chieftain that somewhat paints BP as negligent and calls for the LGBT couple to rise up and look bad ass beating up the bad guys as a F you to their sexist masochist ways). So the thing with Coates, is execution.. with how he'll bring this all together.

I honestly never saw the T'Challa-to-Shuri transition that way, in fact reading your post is the first time I see that it could've been interpreted in that manner. I personally felt it was something done to shake things up, for better or worse at the time. And I wasn't a fan of the transition when finding out about it.

Now Coates' run so far, I can def see it. He seems more emphatic with it too. The rapes/molestation, the "No One Man,", and so on.

[Yaw]

- bucky made a career of being a ghost

- Cap is a monster and they stalemated

- Why should T'challa be 100% electrocution proof while wearing a damn metal suit?

1. Black Panther is the ultimate tracker.
2. I agree they stalemated but there is a stain on BP when it was him AND War Machine vs. Cap at one point. ( i didn't say BP was chumped out).
3. Because if you are wearing a metal suit in the modern era, you are a complete dumbass if you do not make contingencies to counteract a common taser. (do you think Iron Man would be phased by a taser???)

[Yaw]

Agreed. I cannot call him "nerfed" by not instantly being able to track down a top-tier assassin (who also is a Super Soldier btw) who, as you said, made a career out of being a ghost. To the point that, according to BW in TWS, most of the intelligence community didn't even believe that he existed at all.

It's also not "nerfing" if he cannot curb-stomp Captain America, the super soldier with super-strength, endurance, agility, and a limited healing factor probably. Also a trained soldier with years of combat experience and knowledge of hand to hand combat. As you said, BP fought him to a draw, which is more than most characters have been able to do. So yeah, that's impressive in and of itself.

And BW's bites can affect aliens and Ultron bots, so BP being mildly affected (only long enough for Cap and Bucky to escape, and it took multiple shots to do even that) isn't "nerfing" either.

Just because he's not completely invincible and plowing through established, experienced, skilled other characters with ease, doesn't mean that he's being "nerfed." He's clearly one of the most skilled characters in the MCU right now, the movie demonstrates that over and over and over again.

EDIT: Oh and not killing the villain had nothing to do with his power. It had to do with not wanting a lust for vengeance to turn him into a monster/something ugly/do something terrible, like it did to Zemo and was currently doing to Tony and Cap.

So now we are cosigning weaknesses in BP's portrayal. To be clear, I generally liked his portrayal but these were clear weaknesses. I gave it a pass because it seems that we are getting a younger, more inexperienced T'Challa and it was not his movie. I am happy to see the growth of his character in upcoming movies. However, I will not pretend that he where he should be as far I'm concerned. Priest was right. This was not HIS Black Panther. I looked forward to seeing T'Challa grow into Priest Panther but his is not there yet. This is the only reason I say that let's not celebrate an "MCU" T'Challa pretend he was more effective that comic book T'Challa until we get his movie.

Even Avengers:EMH show a T'Challa who was able to solo the whole avengers team. The Giant-man takedown was classic. In CA:CW he's sitting on his ass (btw I left that one out of my original comment because I didn't necessarily see this as terribly problematic).

Just to be clear, I'm not saying his portrayal overall was weak but I saw a clear room for improvement. Personally I prefer to see room for improvement as it makes room for more development and storytelling. However, I'm not placing that depiction over comic book T'Challa.

[Mr MajestiK]

Doom yes

Reed didn't Bumble0? His little girl looked more competent than him. And Strange? lol he sold his soul to the devil, murdered the JL, and then went awol until he because Dooms lap boy until Doom decided to kill him with the easiest of ease. No. Yall are reaching. Aim? lol

Also I don't see any point where T'challa lied to Shuri.


The Namor stuff sure. Everything else you mentioned is well within character given the stakes.

Brotha Maj we need that picture of Namor laughing at this.. Seriously are you going to try and pretend crap didn't happen ? Val looking more competent the Reed? Lol and you say we are reaching..

Your wish is my command.

People here have given clear coherent reasons for why they didn't like T'Challas depiction and even have said that if only a few things were different then it would of been fine and your automatic response is the same regurgitated reply that isn't even what people wanted.

Some people willingly choose to see what the want regardless of how illogical their stand on an issue is in reality.

It's per the course. :smh:

Not only did he indeed lie to Shuri, the Dora Milaje called him out on it. It's all on panel.

You can post as many factual scans as you want and there'll still be some cats on here countering with empty aired sarcasm masquerading as sage commentary.

[Victor Freeman]

We need to slow down with this "MCU-ized" Tchalla. I need to see Black Panther before the final verdict is made. While I generally liked his portrayal in CA:CW, let's be clear that that was a nerfed T'Challa. Losing track of Bucky after he kicked him off of the stairs; Not getting the best of Captain America; being affected (at all) by widow bites; not finishing off the killer of his father (this one is debatable)... While he was entertaining, he still wasn't the TChalla that I ultimately want to see on screen. It wasn't his movie and it is his first showing so I gave it a pass but these are things that will have to be corrected and improved upon before we can give MCU Tchalla a full cosign.

MCU Panther is nerfed, but Coates Goon Slammed Panther, who couldn't track Zenzi in the first issue, after getting beat over the head with a shovel by Miners is not? lmao.

[Victor Freeman]

So now we are cosigning weaknesses in BP's portrayal. To be clear, I generally liked his portrayal but these were clear weaknesses. I gave it a pass because it seems that we are getting a younger, more inexperienced T'Challa and it was not his movie. I am happy to see the growth of his character in upcoming movies. However, I will not pretend that he where he should be as far I'm concerned. Priest was right. This was not HIS Black Panther. I looked forward to seeing T'Challa grow into Priest Panther but his is not there yet. This is the only reason I say that let's not celebrate an "MCU" T'Challa pretend he was more effective that comic book T'Challa until we get his movie.

Even Avengers:EMH show a T'Challa who was able to solo the whole avengers team. The Giant-man takedown was classic. In CA:CW he's sitting on his ass (btw I left that one out of my original comment because I didn't necessarily see this as terribly problematic).

Just to be clear, I'm not saying his portrayal overall was weak but I saw a clear room for improvement. Personally I prefer to see room for improvement as it makes room for more development and storytelling. However, I'm not placing that depiction over comic book T'Challa.

No we don't. Come on Bro. How you going to post this, then sit here straight faced defending Coates? LMAO....A "MCU-ized" T'challa is far better then ANYTHING we are getting now.

If I recall correctly, T'challa could not even track Zenzi, a new character, but MCU Panther is nerfed because he could not track a Assassin-Super Soldier, who managed to dodge the Avengers and the countries who he has killed people for decades. The entire world couldn't find him? It's just showing his perks too. T'challa was kicking his ass.

You say he's nerfed because he didn't get the best of Captain America in Captain America's OWN MOVIE. He did stalemate him. Meanwhile, dude is getting Body Slammed by some no-name big Goon, and even covering his face like a cowering punk? Really Bruh? You say that he is nerfed because Widow's "Stang" affected him? Meanwhile, dude is getting beat over the head by a couple miners? You say that he's nerfed because he didn't Kill Zemo (who had plot armor and also will probably be used again). Meanwhile, dude has done nothing for revenge in 616. He's getting Goon Slammed, Beat over the head by minders, attacking innocent people, co-signing rape by his inaction, bumbling around his millionth revolt.

He had Bucky on the ropes. The same Bucky who punched Steve Rogers through a Elevator. A dude who terrorized Fury, Black Widow and Falcon in Winter Soldier. A guy who ran through Steve Rogers, Black Widow, Sharon Carter, Tony Stark, a Bunch of Special Forces, but T'challa fought him off, unarmed and without his suit, Bucky RAN. He stalemated the same Cap, who could fight Both Ultron and Loki in hand to hand, beat struggled to be Bucky, but "MCU-ized" Panther terriorized him. It's pretty clear that T'challa could wipe the floor with Natasha. So giving her something is perfectly fine. Remember, he doesn't have to be perfect or curb stomp everyone. But the fact that he could stand toe to toe with any of the Super Soldiers is something we hardly seen as of late.

MCU-ized T'challa is a unapologetic Wakandan Super-solider (Warrior-Protector) and King. Steve could did not beat him. He almost killed Bucky twice (plot armor) and you have to save things for HIS FILM. Not sure what you mean. All current T'challa does is pose and Talk. He's got Storm-idus.

[Rumble]

I honestly never saw the T'Challa-to-Shuri transition that way, in fact reading your post is the first time I see that it could've been interpreted in that manner. I personally felt it was something done to shake things up, for better or worse at the time. And I wasn't a fan of the transition when finding out about it.

Now Coates' run so far, I can def see it. He seems more emphatic with it too. The rapes/molestation, the "No One Man,", and so on.

"Could've been interpreted" ? Breh, the whole premise of the very first arc is BP gets his ass destroyed to the point of death's door, to where there now has to be a new black panther... step in Shuri. That is shaking things up.. to pave the way for her to take the mantle. Oh that's not to say Hudlin had any malicious intent, probably quite the opposite when it came to elevating a woman of color... but it doesn't change how he did it. The execution.

I'm sure Coates doesn't have any malicious or dishonorable intent either... quite the opposite: let's elevate women of color and get lgbt in on the fun... sounds good. I'd just prefer a better balance of showing that, of championing that type of inclusion... without kicking T'Challa in the nuts in the process.

[Realdealholy]

"Could've been interpreted" ? Breh, the whole premise of the very first arc is BP gets his ass destroyed to the point of death's door, to where there now has to be a new black panther... step in Shuri. That is shaking things up.. to pave the way for her to take the mantle. Oh that's not to say Hudlin had any malicious intent, probably quite the opposite when it came to elevating a woman of color... but it doesn't change how he did it. The execution.

I'm sure Coates doesn't have any malicious or dishonorable intent either... quite the opposite: let's elevate women of color and get lgbt in on the fun... sounds good. I'd just prefer a better balance of showing that, of championing that type of inclusion... without kicking T'Challa in the nuts in the process.

I meant seeing it as a shoutout to feminism (you mentioned feminism in your original post). I saw it ultimately as a transition from one panther to another. How it was executed is a whole 'nother story. And in a way it really didn't feel like a total transition, being that T'Challa was still very involved in the story and in the subsequent story-arcs. I continued reading past "Deadliest of the Species" because T'Challa was still in it.

[Mr MajestiK]

It would likely matter more to Shuri than T'Challa anyways. T'Challa is already good at everything. He may be smarter. In most areas than any of the previous one. But Shuri hasn't shown the same level of experience and knowledge so it might be more useful to her.

I'm not sure what T'Challa you've been reading but, I've seen ZERO evidence of T'Challa being "good" at anything other than losing, making false promises and generally getting his ass Gary Goon slammed.

[Mr MajestiK]

MCU Panther is nerfed, but Coates Goon Slammed Panther, who couldn't track Zenzi in the first issue, after getting beat over the head with a shovel by Miners is not? lmao.

I'm really suprised at Brotha Yaw.

[Victor Freeman]

I'm really suprised at Brotha Yaw.

I get it. But I MCU Panther has potential. It's he's a action character as opposed to always talking. He's don't have to curb stomp everyone, but you see the reaction of most people. He occupies a space that isn't traditionally allowed by black men or PoC.

[Mr MajestiK]

No we don't. Come on Bro. How you going to post this, then sit here straight faced defending Coates? LMAO....A "MCU-ized" T'challa is far better then ANYTHING we are getting now.

If I recall correctly, T'challa could not even track Zenzi, a new character, but MCU Panther is nerfed because he could not track a Assassin-Super Soldier, who managed to dodge the Avengers and the countries who he has killed people for decades. The entire world couldn't find him? It's just showing his perks too. T'challa was kicking his ass.

You say he's nerfed because he didn't get the best of Captain America in Captain America's OWN MOVIE. He did stalemate him. Meanwhile, dude is getting Body Slammed by some no-name big Goon, and even covering his face like a cowering punk? Really Bruh? You say that he is nerfed because Widow's "Stang" affected him? Meanwhile, dude is getting beat over the head by a couple miners? You say that he's nerfed because he didn't Kill Zemo (who had plot armor and also will probably be used again). Meanwhile, dude has done nothing for revenge in 616. He's getting Goon Slammed, Beat over the head by minders, attacking innocent people, co-signing rape by his inaction, bumbling around his millionth revolt.

He had Bucky on the ropes. The same Bucky who punched Steve Rogers through a Elevator. A dude who terrorized Fury, Black Widow and Falcon in Winter Soldier. A guy who ran through Steve Rogers, Black Widow, Sharon Carter, Tony Stark, a Bunch of Special Forces, but T'challa fought him off, unarmed and without his suit, Bucky RAN. He stalemated the same Cap, who could fight Both Ultron and Loki in hand to hand, beat struggled to be Bucky, but "MCU-ized" Panther terriorized him. It's pretty clear that T'challa could wipe the floor with Natasha. So giving her something is perfectly fine. Remember, he doesn't have to be perfect or curb stomp everyone. But the fact that he could stand toe to toe with any of the Super Soldiers is something we hardly seen as of late.

MCU-ized T'challa is a unapologetic Wakandan Super-solider (Warrior-Protector) and King. Steve could did not beat him. He almost killed Bucky twice (plot armor) and you have to save things for HIS FILM. Not sure what you mean. All current T'challa does is pose and Talk. He's got Storm-idus.

[Mr MajestiK]

I get it. But I MCU Panther has potential. It's he's a action character as opposed to always talking. He's don't have to curb stomp everyone, but you see the reaction of most people. He occupies a space that isn't traditionally allowed by black men or PoC.

Agreed 100%.

[Rumble]

I meant seeing it as a shoutout to feminism. You mentioned feminism in your original post. I saw it ultimately as a transition from one panther to another. And in a way it really didn't feel like a total transition, being that T'Challa was still very involved in the story and in the subsequent story-arcs. Frankly, I continued reading past "Deadliest of the Species" because T'Challa was still in it.

I definitely see Shuri as a response by Hudlin to a lack of black female superheroes. edit Hudlin just seems too socially conscious of a brotha that the obvious gap in inclusion and elevation wouldn't have been lost on him; from her creation/recton, her gradual cultivation, and the eventual switcheroo. There was a time where it felt like she'd be dawning the suit exclusively and BP would be tribal face paint man moving forward. Obviously once hudlin left and that arc finished, a host of other things happened either by editorial mandate or what have you and the rest is history as to where both characters are today.

Important thing is that's not to say a shoutout to feminism or black feminism/empowerment should be seen as a bad thing. It's more so a balance of inclusion without BP having to be burnt alive, humiliated, made to look negligent, etc. Well, at least its my personal preference for those things not needing to happen for inclusion lol

[XPac]

I definitely see Shuri as a response by Hudlin to a lack of black female superheroes; her creation/recton, her gradual cultivation, and the eventual switcheroo. There was a time where it felt like she'd be dawning the suit exclusively and BP would be tribal face paint man moving forward. Obviously once hudlin left and that arc finished, a host of other things happened either by editorial mandate or what have you and the rest is history as to where both characters are today.

Important thing is that's not to say a shoutout to feminism or black feminism/empowerment should be seen as a bad thing. It's more so a balance of inclusion without BP having to be burnt alive, humiliated, made to look negligent, etc. Well, at least its my personal preference for those things not needing to happen for inclusion lol

It was necessary to a degree since T'Challa needed to be beaten to justify him losing the title. But yeah ... you can argue Hudlin didn't Ned to make it so one sided. I can understand wanting to build up Doom for the upcoming event but he probably went a bit too far.

But criticism aside it's still one of my all time fave BP stories.