Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[Mr MajestiK]

Right, McGregor did this 40 years ago. Except he didn't give us Third World Wakanda with accompanying rape camps.

I didn't like McGregor's take then and I certainly don't like what Coates is doing now.

I'm too tired to even go into how much disdain I have for Coates take on the BP mythos at this point.

Suffice it to say that I'll never drink his Kool Aid.

[Mr MajestiK]

Oh boy Coates Replacing McGregor as the Worst Panther Writer in History. Never thought I say this when Coates was announced.

I liked McGregor's 1970's Black Panther work especially as all cast members got their time to shine in the sun without T'Challa being relegated to the background.

Also, Don had no problem illustrating a black heterosexual couple in love which is more than be said for Coates and his "heteronormative" rape camp fetish.

[Realdealholy]

That’s likely a natural result of gaining experience in writing comic-books, which is not the same as other types of writing. I saw similar improvement with Reggie Hudlin over the course of his run. Right from the start, I thought his first two issues could have been one.

The Coates run reminds me of the Hudlin run in that regard. Rather iffy start in part because they both aren't comic book writers, with some progress as time goes on. Hudlin especially showed progress as time went on and even concluded his run very well, imho.

I'm still following the Coates run at the moment, but for every piece of progress (the T'Challa-Captive convo, for example) he makes it really. realllllly. hard for me to do so. That meeting....why?

So far, strictly as a story, its not bad. Some issues are actually pretty good, imho. As a BP story though...*sigh*, its just weird right now. Then again, what a "BP story" is seems to be changing the way this run is going.

Not only that, McGregor was the one who introduced the character of T’Challa’s stepmother Ramonda, with the story that she had been kidnapped and held imprisoned by a White South African man for over a decade. An idea which is bad enough, but he also later had a panel where Ramonda is remembering how the man repeatedly raped her over the years, and recalled that even though she tried to hold back her feelings sometimes she couldn't help but enjoy it.

That's right, she liked by raped by the White South African man (sometimes). Because she was just that horny so at least she was getting some sex.

What in the hell...

Didn't read that story...will def pass on it now.

Seriously, I had not read McGregor’s work, as it was before my time. I eventually sought it out after on the recommendation of the Late Dwayne McDuffie (Peace Be Upon Him), who repeatedly talked about how great McGregor’s work was, and it was that which made HIM a fan of Black Panther. Since there were no collections I tracked down McGregor’s entire run and ordered the single issues online. All the Jungle Action books and the Marvel Comics Presents books, and the Panther’s Prey miniseries. And I read it all and was just like, this is terrible. I don’t see the appeal at all. Wakanda seemed much more backward than it had been when introduced by Lee and Kirby and, like I said, T’Challa was constantly getting beaten up within the course of the series. Even the way he wrote Monica Lynne, I didn’t see what T’Challa found so special about her.

I remember Hudlin and McDuffie had a back and forth about it. McDuffie really liked it, Hudlin def didn't.

I am aware of the speculation that this will be resolved with T’Challa dismantling the monarchy. I would not necessarily be happy with that either. I mean, I guess they could initiate free elections in Wakanda, and then T’Challa gets elected President, so he’s still ruling the nation but now just democratically. But I don’t see that as necessary.

I think we'll get a constitutional monarchy: monarchy is still around, T'Challa is still "King," monarchy is still highly influential, but parliament / Wakandan council will be making the final decision, which head of parliament / council wielding a lot more powers now. Something of that sort.

I can see a lot of new readers liking it. I can also see a lot of longtime BP fans realllllly not liking that direction. Unfortunately, I can see Coates going that direction. Then again, he might suprise me again, for better or worse.

[Mr MajestiK]

Not only that, McGregor was the one who introduced the character of T’Challa’s stepmother Ramonda, with the story that she had been kidnapped and held imprisoned by a White South African man for over a decade. An idea which is bad enough, but he also later had a panel where Ramonda is remembering how the man repeatedly raped her over the years, and recalled that even though she tried to hold back her feelings sometimes she couldn't help but enjoy it.

That's right, she liked by raped by the White South African man (sometimes). Because she was just that horny so at least she was getting some sex.

Say what?

What run was this in?

[Mike_Murdock]

It would presumably have to be in Panther's Prey. I don't think there's enough room in Panther's Quest since her rescue is right at the end. I don't think that's necessarily the correct interpretation of that quote. Rather it's that rape victims do occasionally experience arousal which leads to even greater shame because they end up thinking they somehow wanted it.

Article from The Nation

 “Approximately 1 in 20 women who come to the clinic for treatment because of sexual abuse report that they have had an orgasm from previous unsolicited sexual arousal. It is not detailed in the [professional] literature because the victims usually do not want to tell/talk about it because they feel guilty, as people will think that if it happened they must have enjoyed it. The victims often say, ‘My body let me down.’ Some, however, cannot summon the courage to say even that.”

[Jabare]

we are only 5 issues in let us see where he takes us

[iblogalot]

It would presumably have to be in Panther's Prey. I don't think there's enough room in Panther's Quest since her rescue is right at the end. I don't think that's necessarily the correct interpretation of that quote. Rather it's that rape victims do occasionally experience arousal which leads to even greater shame because they end up thinking they somehow wanted it.

Yes, it was Panther's Prey, and yes that is how it was presented, how she tried to resist but sometimes felt stimulated by his touch anyway. It wasn't a major plot-point or anything, it's just one page where Ramonda was alone and thinking about it. And that's part of what made it so distasteful to me, as there didn't seem to be any reason for us to learn that Ramonda sometimes got aroused by her capture/rapist. It wasn't followed up on in any way, or added anything to the story. So what was the point of even bringing that up? It was just one more thing I disliked about McGregor's overall run(s) on Black Panther. And this was also the miniseries that introduced Crack to Wakanda.

[iblogalot]

I remember Hudlin and McDuffie had a back and forth about it. McDuffie really liked it, Hudlin def didn't.

And it was on Hudlin's recommendation that I finally tracked down and read Jack Kirby's Black Panther. . .and that was just...WEIRD.

[Ekie]

we are only 5 issues in let us see where he takes us

He said and I quote. After the end of his 12 issue stint he felt "Sorry, for T'challa."


That was in an interview. The writer....feels bad for what he's doing to the main character at the end of his run arch. We don't need to wait in order to know where this trash is going.

[Mike_Murdock]

Yes, it was Panther's Prey, and yes that is how it was presented, how she tried to resist but sometimes felt stimulated by his touch anyway. It wasn't a major plot-point or anything, it's just one page where Ramonda was alone and thinking about it. And that's part of what made it so distasteful to me, as there didn't seem to be any reason for us to learn that Ramonda sometimes got aroused by her capture/rapist. It wasn't followed up on in any way, or added anything to the story. So what was the point of even bringing that up? It was just one more thing I disliked about McGregor's overall run(s) on Black Panther. And this was also the miniseries that introduced Crack to Wakanda.

Any chance you remember which of the issues it was in so I can look it up?

Panther's Prey is far and away my least favorite McGregor story, although for different reasons than you suggest (it felt like it went nowhere on four different fronts and then ended). It tried to do too much and ended up doing nothing at all.

[MindofShadow]

If my introduction to tchalla was under Don's pen, I woulda never read a single other issue with him because his only redeeming quality was getting his ass beat.

[JediKage]

I liked McGregor's 1970's Black Panther work especially as all cast members got their time to shine in the sun without T'Challa being relegated to the background.

Also, Don had no problem illustrating a black heterosexual couple in love which is more than be said for Coates and his "heteronormative" rape camp fetish.

That is a good point. Especially when you consider that was 1970. 2016 and the haters are getting everything they want. SMFH.

[MindofShadow]

Any chance you remember which of the issues it was in so I can look it up?

Panther's Prey is far and away my least favorite McGregor story, although for different reasons than you suggest (it felt like it went nowhere on four different fronts and then ended). It tried to do too much and ended up doing nothing at all.

First issue of Prey. When tchalla is talking to her.

Ill post the scan tomorrow.

I cant decide if the KKK or Prey is my least favorite arc ever. I havent gotten to Quest yet bc im afraid

[Mike_Murdock]

^ I like Quest a lot, but the format does it no favors (and makes it difficult to collect). I really like how KKK started, but the final conclusion by a different writer was just abysmal. It ruined everything that came before (which isn't something I like to say).

I'd still put Prey over Doomwar, but not much else.

If my introduction to tchalla was under Don's pen, I woulda never read a single other issue with him because his only redeeming quality was getting his ass beat.

Not his courage and determination and resolve to do the just thing?

Panther's Rage was my first introduction to a Black Panther solo comic and it led me to continue onward to Priest, Hudlin, etc. But it also gave me a perspective that Priest's version is great, but he isn't the only acceptable version.

Now if Black Panther Vol. 1 by Jack Kirby was my first introduction, I can't say I'd have kept reading.

[XPac]

He said and I quote. After the end of his 12 issue stint he felt "Sorry, for T'challa."


That was in an interview. The writer....feels bad for what he's doing to the main character at the end of his run arch. We don't need to wait in order to know where this trash is going.

Honestly I think Liss had the only BP run in recent history where you probably don't need to feel sorry for the character.

Priests run ended with T'Challa being dethroned with a brain aneurysm. Hudlins run ended with him dethroned and just recovering from a coma at Dooms hands. Maeberrys run ended with him still depowered and dethroned after he destroyed their processed vibranium.