Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[dreyga2000]

Where is this burning need to make Asgard or Atlantis more "believable?"

We're talking about a fictional universe where humans, aliens, gods, mutants and demonstrate rib shoulders and you're talking about the need for "reality" in Wakanda?

Mmm hmm.

Namor....

Well the nine realms recently got a democratic lay elected coucncil to govern over them.

[XPac]

Well the nine realms recently got a democratic lay elected coucncil to govern over them.

The Inhumans are possibly getting elections as well.

Wakanda is being quite the trend setter among the fictional nations of the MU.

[Ezyo1000]

Wakanda seemed partically restored at least, since it wasn't in as bad shape as we saw in Time Runs Out. But yeah, like I said there's a lot of question marks here. Either the Thanos attack simply wasn't as severe the second time around or the powers that be partially restored Wakanda.

This is why marvel should of just said he used the reality gem and pieced the 616 back together. Too many inconsistencies

[Tofali]

Well the nine realms recently got a democratic lay elected coucncil to govern over them.

I know I missed a couple of issues but Who are thiese elected Council you speak of and what has democracy have to do with Cul being the Regent of Asgard while Odin is distructed with Freyja.?

[Mr MajestiK]

I agree with the first part, had Reg finished out the story where he wanted it to go, I definitely think Doom would have gotten handed his. But going A-list requires more than just a good writer. You gotta think some of the A-List characters have had half a century of story telling, also multiple TV shows and cartoons, they built fan bases over generations. T'challa is just getting to a point where he could get some of that. Though I think yes Priest's panther would probably be received way better than Coate's panther. Doesn't make Coates a bad writer though especially for this book.

Coateswilfully disregarding the overarching aesthetic of the BP mythos that existed prior to his arrival make him wholly unsuited to writing this book.

The cancellation of his other BP related titles confirms said unsuitability regardless of whatever spin is applied.

Here we have a writer who expressly stated that he could not wrap his head around the BP mythos as they stood and then went on to totally mischaracterize T'Challa and Wakanda on some straight up false narrative "No one man" BS and cats are still hail8ng him as a good writer.

I'd hate to see who some of you characterize as being crap scribes.

[Mr MajestiK]

BP just came off a multi-year deconstruction story from Hickman. Prior to that, BP came from a similar story from Mayberry and AvX. At least Liss brought some fun moments with the Hell's Kitchen run.

So to put the character in yet another deconstruction story screams one-note to me. That's about a decade of misery from a character who was meant to be inspiring.

Frank Miller brought to misery to Matt Murdock's life, and it works. Walking on the edge of disaster, darkness, and madness is Matt's comfort zone. When Matt's life seems better than T'Challa's, then something is wrong.

BP should be a mix of high adventure (Kirby, Priest, & Hudlin), political intrigue (Priest & Liss), science fiction (McDuffie, Stan Lee, Aaron, & Priest), tales of war (McGregor, Hudlin, Aaron, & Priest) the occasional urban drama (Priest & Liss), and social relevance (all the above to some degree). The first story from Priest was supernatural.

Fans should be treated to a very nice mix of stories, yet writers keep regurgitating the same ol' feces.

I couldn't have said it better.

[Mr MajestiK]

Coates didn't ignore Hickman's ending... he didn't know it when he wrote his story. FOrtunately (or unfortuantely depending on how you look at it), he really didn't need to know Hickmans ending because marvel essentially decided to just ignore it and say all the incursion happened anyways. So Hickman traveling back to New Avengers 1 really ended up not doing anything.

So basically, Al Ewing and everyone else got the memo that Coates didn't.

T'Challa and Wakanda were central to the Ultimates initiative in Ewing's books and every appearance T'Challa has had guest starring in other characters books has been BOSS but somehow his own solo book features him chumped by z-listers, foreign despots and random goons?

Tell me in what kind of bizarre universe that makes any kind of sense?

[beetheb]

One question: I've been away from this forum a long time, like many years. Why is every top thread in this sub-forum an "appreciation" thread? Where's all the bitching? Where are all the old forum regulars? Why does this feel so much like The Stepford Wives?

Thank you.

[Mr MajestiK]

One question: I've been away from this forum a long time, like many years. Why is every top thread in this sub-forum an "appreciation" thread? Where's all the bitching? Where are all the old forum regulars? Why does this feel so much like The Stepford Wives?

Thank you.

There was a forum reboot more than a few years ago.

Nothing has been the same since.

Welcome back.

[C_haos]

How had he been chumped?.. my loard this has been explained seriously over the course of several hundred pages, explained in great detail. Hell my Short version you quoted me on explain how he has been chumped. The simple fact that he is struggling against goons, z Listers,
and new Villains with vague power sets that really amount to very little Real threats. Again Coates basically said in interviews he wasn't going to write Tchalla in Character. He had to depower Tchalla and Wakanda for his story to Even work. You do know that Right? As I explained this in my previous posts. You want to say what losses has he taken in this run that was worst then the ones in previous runs? Who is comparing full complete series to partially complete Now? Coates Tchalla wasn't even the driving force of S1 for atleast half the Story and Even when he started doing More, everyone of your listed cool feats he achieved were done with help, too Much help. Coates doesn't know how respect the mythos and he doesn't care.

And no Wakanda was never a misogynist country that had rape camps and oppressed women, and had a men either be inept, uncaring, or rapist until Coates came along with his bullshit. So you will miss me with that dysfunction had been the Hallmark.

Also if you don't want to compare feats who cares? The feats still don't lie and they show Coates version is the most inferior Panther of this solos to date.

And Yes unfans eat up this"humanized" and "relatable" Coates version Panther because he is shown as mopey and useless and weak compared to the real Tchalla Who Priest Hudlin, McDuffie, and Liss channeled. The one unfans would cry he was a Gary Stu. I will call it like I see it. And this version Coates is a unfans dream

So I'm expected to believe that BP got chumped because he didn't defeat the multiple threats fast enough? Wouldn't call any villian who outsmarted Tony Stark a z Lister, you keep calling them goons and bandits but it was a rebel army. You keep saying he had help but how is it any different from using his resources in prior runs i.e by your logic he had help to beat the Skrulls in See Wakanda and Die? Outside of the obvious Maberry/Hickman stuff Priest put through the ringer Nakia, losing to Kilmonger, let's not talk about the end abdicating the throne, Hudlin nearly killed him by Doom in an ambush twice if you count there first dust up in his run where he needed "help" . What Coates showed in s1 was a BP who systemically and strategically beat his enemies on multiple fronts using the resources at his disposal. To say he wasn't the driving force indicates that maybe you weren't paying attention to the story every character focuses on his actions save for Shuri for the first 9 issues.

Wakanda is a nation with people to say they are incapable of fault is dangerously wrong. Hudlin and Priest showed their xenophobic traits and Priest got involved with the back story to the Jabari razing as well as the secret police and their policies. You're saying that genocide is fine but a rape camp nah that's​ too far like hey they'll kill you but they'll never rob you as if it's not a distinct possibility.

The feats wouldn't show that but your opinion is fine

Then you need your eyes checked number one. And to result to name calling just shows how juvenile you are no 2. To call him useless and weak just shows your not reading the book when its been shown otherwise.

[XPac]

This is why marvel should of just said he used the reality gem and pieced the 616 back together. Too many inconsistencies

I agree, using the reality gem to just fix things rather than going back to NA 1 seems a whole lot simpler. The whole time travel thing just seemed unecessary.

Which isn't to say Hickman didn't have a very nice scene at the end... but the fact that he want back in time all the way to NA 1 was practically begging marvel editorial to essentially ignore it. But Hickman was on his way out anyways, so I imagine he was happy finishing the story the way he wanted regardless of how the fall out would be handled.

[4sake Baned]

How the hell or why to be more exact would a Black man/black writer/Coates portray a Black character whose never been portrayed consistently in such a poor manner like he has been now in his current title.. makes no damn sense.

I hate comparing Panther to Batman, but Panther needs a writer who would write him in the way Snyder wrote Batman. Where Panther is capable of doing virtually anything.

All ya skin folks anit ya kinfolks

How had he been chumped?.. my loard this has been explained seriously over the course of several hundred pages, explained in great detail. Hell my Short version you quoted me on explain how he has been chumped. The simple fact that he is struggling against goons, z Listers,
and new Villains with vague power sets that really amount to very little Real threats. Again Coates basically said in interviews he wasn't going to write Tchalla in Character. He had to depower Tchalla and Wakanda for his story to Even work. You do know that Right? As I explained this in my previous posts. You want to say what losses has he taken in this run that was worst then the ones in previous runs? Who is comparing full complete series to partially complete Now? Coates Tchalla wasn't even the driving force of S1 for atleast half the Story and Even when he started doing More, everyone of your listed cool feats he achieved were done with help, too Much help. Coates doesn't know how respect the mythos and he doesn't care.

And no Wakanda was never a misogynist country that had rape camps and oppressed women, and had a men either be inept, uncaring, or rapist until Coates came along with his bullshit. So you will miss me with that dysfunction had been the Hallmark.

Also if you don't want to compare feats who cares? The feats still don't lie and they show Coates version is the most inferior Panther of this solos to date.

And Yes unfans eat up this"humanized" and "relatable" Coates version Panther because he is shown as mopey and useless and weak compared to the real Tchalla Who Priest Hudlin, McDuffie, and Liss channeled. The one unfans would cry he was a Gary Stu. I will call it like I see it. And this version Coates is a unfans dream

I personally feel that Coates himself, has a negative view of Africa and Africans himself which would account for all of the negative stereotypes he's used in his BP run to date.

He obviously can't wrap his head around the concept of a supremely technologically, spiritually and sociologically advanced African nation.

Especially one that's operated independently of any foreign ideologies.

To Coates, such a society even within a fictional world where aliens, deities and humans intermingle, is impossible to visualise or comprehend.

BP just came off a multi-year deconstruction story from Hickman. Prior to that, BP came from a similar story from Mayberry and AvX. At least Liss brought some fun moments with the Hell's Kitchen run.

So to put the character in yet another deconstruction story screams one-note to me. That's about a decade of misery from a character who was meant to be inspiring.

Frank Miller brought to misery to Matt Murdock's life, and it works. Walking on the edge of disaster, darkness, and madness is Matt's comfort zone. When Matt's life seems better than T'Challa's, then something is wrong.

BP should be a mix of high adventure (Kirby, Priest, & Hudlin), political intrigue (Priest & Liss), science fiction (McDuffie, Stan Lee, Aaron, & Priest), tales of war (McGregor, Hudlin, Aaron, & Priest) the occasional urban drama (Priest & Liss), and social relevance (all the above to some degree). The first story from Priest was supernatural.

Fans should be treated to a very nice mix of stories, yet writers keep regurgitating the same ol' feces.

Really Hudlin's the one who got the ball rolling on forcing marvel and the rest of the MU to take him and Wakanda seriously, Priest and Hudlin also proved that BP is capable of A-list given what they achieved forth time They were working with. Had they had the hype Coates had, as well as social media as big as it is now, they would of gotten alot further and we would of seen Hudlin's event.

BP just came off a multi-year deconstruction story from Hickman. Prior to that, BP came from a similar story from Mayberry and AvX. At least Liss brought some fun moments with the Hell's Kitchen run.

So to put the character in yet another deconstruction story screams one-note to me. That's about a decade of misery from a character who was meant to be inspiring.

Frank Miller brought to misery to Matt Murdock's life, and it works. Walking on the edge of disaster, darkness, and madness is Matt's comfort zone. When Matt's life seems better than T'Challa's, then something is wrong.

BP should be a mix of high adventure (Kirby, Priest, & Hudlin), political intrigue (Priest & Liss), science fiction (McDuffie, Stan Lee, Aaron, & Priest), tales of war (McGregor, Hudlin, Aaron, & Priest) the occasional urban drama (Priest & Liss), and social relevance (all the above to some degree). The first story from Priest was supernatural.

Fans should be treated to a very nice mix of stories, yet writers keep regurgitating the same ol' feces.

Coates isn't a bad writer. He is a bad comic writer and a bad BP writer. He doesn't understand or respect Tchalla and Wakanda and it shows.

Can't be better said & He should be writing x-books...

Priest did not get T'Challa at a high point. BP did not have a solo for nearly 20 years before Priest did his solo in 1998. His last serial story was in Marvel Comics Presents in 1989. Panther's Prey was in 1991.

And last actual great story (imo) where he was the lead in 1988 by Denys Cowan & Peter B. Gillis..

[dreyga2000]

I know I missed a couple of issues but Who are thiese elected Council you speak of and what has democracy have to do with Cul being the Regent of Asgard while Odin is distructed with Freyja.?

They are called the Congress of Worlds.

The Congress of Worlds was a congregation of representatives of Nine Realms with the purpose to discuss and resolve issues of interest to all of the Nine Worlds.[1]

The Congress is also tasked with the approval of royal appointments,[2] such as a King's[3] or a Royal Inquisitor's nomination.

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Congres...ds_(Earth-616)

[XPac]

They are called the Congress of Worlds.



http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Congres...ds_(Earth-616)

Hmm... sort of funny hearing Frost Giants and Fire Demons being referred to as senators.

But if Fire Demon senators don't prove you can mix a little realism into fantasy, nothing will.

[Tofali]

They are called the Congress of Worlds.



http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Congres...ds_(Earth-616)

Do Congress of Worlds have a role in governing Asgard thou? Malekith marrying an Elf queen was not passed through the CoW this body is just there to intervene "in matter of interest" I have always thought that they were like a UN body that is hosted by Asgard