Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[XPac]

I feel the same, I don't really count MM.

Yeah, I guess he doesn't count. I just always thought of him as black for some reason. Same thing with Piccolo in DBZ. Doesn't really make sense logically ... I guess it was just a vibe I got.

[XPac]

Does every character HAVE to be idealized wish fulfillment though?

How many of Marvel characters are alienated loners(and Cyborg was created by guys who were Marvel creators trying to ape what worked at Marvel)?

Look how big of a deal the Hulk is and the whole point of that character was (since the start) that the Hulk's #$%ed.
Or more accurately: Banner's #$%ed BECAUSE of The Hulk.

Not to mention there's other kinds of wish fulfillment: Like the character who is given a reason(usually something horrible happening to them)
to vent bloody revenge on his tormentors.

EX: nearly every Martial Arts movie ever made...

I always thought marvel went the other way from wish full foment
Rather than making them larger than life, they'd go out of their way to at least try and make them grounded.

Though I guess you can sort of do both. Spider-Man had a sick life, but he was still the geek who got to bang a super model.

[HUTHAIFA]

Always thought that was a damn shame his apparent uninterest to write black characters.

I get not wanting to be pigeonholed as an artist but as a black man, you'd think he'd WANT to properly elevate black heroes the same way he did Black Panther and put emphasis and PRIDE in doing so..

Yeah, but he also wants work. Until recently at Marvel how many black characters get solo books. You got maybe 3-4 when Marvel wants to be progressive but that's rare. You want your name to come up.for nearly every book.

It's not like Priest doesn't make a point of color and culture in any book he writes.

By the way, I forgot to congratulate Brian Steelefreze on his Eisner nomination.

[chief12d]

Does every character HAVE to be idealized wish fulfillment though?

How many of Marvel characters are alienated loners(and Cyborg was created by guys who were Marvel creators trying to ape what worked at Marvel)?

Look how big of a deal the Hulk is and the whole point of that character was (since the start) that the Hulk's #$%ed.
Or more accurately: Banner's #$%ed BECAUSE of The Hulk.

Not to mention there's other kinds of wish fulfillment: Like the character who is given a reason(usually something horrible happening to them)
to vent bloody revenge on his tormentors.

EX: nearly every Martial Arts movie ever made...

A character who's going to stand alongside Superman and Batman should to some extent be wish fulfillment. Everyone else on the Justice League is confident, attractive, and has a level of development and progress in their solos. After several years, Cyborg is still hampered by stories of where his place in the world is and trying to develop a niche. He's defined nearly wholly by what he lacks and isn't fun. All of DC's top characters are the opposite in some way.

While Batman suffers from severe pain and is living in the moment of his parents death, he's a billionaire playboy and has built a family for himself. Plus he's a badass. Superman has the struggle of staying grounded, but has a son and villains who remind him of his obligations. Cyborg lacks the layers and weight to stand with guys like that, so while not every character needs to be wish fulfillment, DC's premier black hero should be up to par with Leaguers in terms of story and attraction. What makes it worse is Cyborg can be fun. He's hooked into the entire internet and can teleport anywhere! Someone like that could be a perfect representative of our technological times right now, but TPAB are concerned with checking a box, not fully investing in a character smh.

[Mr MajestiK]

A character who's going to stand alongside Superman and Batman should to some extent be wish fulfillment. Everyone else on the Justice League is confident, attractive, and has a level of development and progress in their solos. After several years, Cyborg is still hampered by stories of where his place in the world is and trying to develop a niche. He's defined nearly wholly by what he lacks and isn't fun. All of DC's top characters are the opposite in some way.

While Batman suffers from severe pain and is living in the moment of his parents death, he's a billionaire playboy and has built a family for himself. Plus he's a badass. Superman has the struggle of staying grounded, but has a son and villains who remind him of his obligations. Cyborg lacks the layers and weight to stand with guys like that, so while not every character needs to be wish fulfillment, DC's premier black hero should be up to par with Leaguers in terms of story and attraction. What makes it worse is Cyborg can be fun. He's hooked into the entire internet and can teleport anywhere! Someone like that could be a perfect representative of our technological times right now, but TPAB are concerned with checking a box, not fully investing in a character smh.

Solid post.

[skyvolt2000]

Yeah, but he also wants work. Until recently at Marvel how many black characters get solo books. You got maybe 3-4 when Marvel wants to be progressive but that's rare. You want your name to come up.for nearly every book.

It's not like Priest doesn't make a point of color and culture in any book he writes.

By the way, I forgot to congratulate Brian Steelefreze on his Eisner nomination.

During Milestone's time (93-97) DC put one black lead book that was ruined by editors in Black Lightning. Steel was already out and John was on his way to background land after an editor axed his book.

Marvel either gave ongoings, minis, one shots or a story to fill an annual to the following blacks.

Deathlok, Luke Cage, Monica (Spectrum) Falcon, War Machine, Black Panther, Storm, Bishop, Prowler, Rocket Racer & Night Thrasher. Priest had his hands in 3 of them.

5 ongoings, 1 one shot, 3-4 minis, 1 backup story & 1 costarring gig. Priest did Monica's one shot. BP & Capt America & Falcon. Priest did The Ray & Justice League Task Force book for DC.

How many of Marvel characters are alienated loners(and Cyborg was created by guys who were Marvel creators trying to ape what worked at Marvel)?

How many of them either moved beyond that or got to showcase something different. They were not handcuffed to the same narrative every time they got a story.

Why is there not more to Cyborg beyond that metal body? Even if you go with he's handicap and still a hero angle-go for it but man vs machine & woe is me 24/7 has to go.

He's hooked into the entire internet and can teleport anywhere! Someone like that could be a perfect representative of our technological times right now, but TPAB are concerned with checking a box, not fully investing in a character smh.

The right writer would have a FIELD day with that. Tom King would go nuts.

[Ziggiyy]

Yeah, but he also wants work. Until recently at Marvel how many black characters get solo books. You got maybe 3-4 when Marvel wants to be progressive but that's rare. You want your name to come up.for nearly every book.

It's not like Priest doesn't make a point of color and culture in any book he writes.

By the way, I forgot to congratulate Brian Steelefreze on his Eisner nomination.

Fair point

[chief12d]

The right writer would have a FIELD day with that. Tom King would go nuts.

Exactly, he should be travelling the world and stuff. And without turning this into a full on black hero thread, it's shameful Black Lightning hasn't gotten a solo in anticipation of his TV show.

[Ezyo1000]

A character who's going to stand alongside Superman and Batman should to some extent be wish fulfillment. Everyone else on the Justice League is confident, attractive, and has a level of development and progress in their solos. After several years, Cyborg is still hampered by stories of where his place in the world is and trying to develop a niche. He's defined nearly wholly by what he lacks and isn't fun. All of DC's top characters are the opposite in some way.

While Batman suffers from severe pain and is living in the moment of his parents death, he's a billionaire playboy and has built a family for himself. Plus he's a badass. Superman has the struggle of staying grounded, but has a son and villains who remind him of his obligations. Cyborg lacks the layers and weight to stand with guys like that, so while not every character needs to be wish fulfillment, DC's premier black hero should be up to par with Leaguers in terms of story and attraction. What makes it worse is Cyborg can be fun. He's hooked into the entire internet and can teleport anywhere! Someone like that could be a perfect representative of our technological times right now, but TPAB are concerned with checking a box, not fully investing in a character smh.

Its the same thing with Black heroes in general. There shouldn't be shackles or limits placed to limit the potential. Characters need some wish fulfillment to some extent. they dont have to be loved by everyone but they need a Draw and they need to be capable. PoC always have to run into this issue and it gets old

[Nate Grey]

Its the same thing with Black heroes in general. There shouldn't be shackles or limits placed to limit the potential. Characters need some wish fulfillment to some extent. they dont have to be loved by everyone but they need a Draw and they need to be capable. PoC always have to run into this issue and it gets old

Agreed. Plus the optics of it: the ONE black person on the team is also the ONE you, shouldn't, look for wish fulfillment?

[chief12d]

Its the same thing with Black heroes in general. There shouldn't be shackles or limits placed to limit the potential. Characters need some wish fulfillment to some extent. they dont have to be loved by everyone but they need a Draw and they need to be capable. PoC always have to run into this issue and it gets old

I think it's a matter of working with what the characters have in their concept and backstories. Cyborg could've started out as an abomination then develops to the point that it's no longer an issue. All that requires is literally a design change and 1 or 2 arcs where his insecurities are highlighted. He doesn't have to be anywhere near perfect like Superman and Wonder Woman, but give him something that makes people want to be him.

Say what you want about the current run of Black Panther, but historically speaking, he's been unabashedly badass and capable, with a great cast around him and diverse stories that have pushed him to the next level. Marvel has also made attempts with Luke Cage, Sam Wilson, and Spider-Man to give black characters opportunities to grow and change in their universe. If Cyborg got even half the creative effort those characters got, he might get enough good material to be a rival to Black Panther lol

[XPac]

I think it's a matter of working with what the characters have in their concept and backstories. Cyborg could've started out as an abomination then develops to the point that it's no longer an issue. All that requires is literally a design change and 1 or 2 arcs where his insecurities are highlighted. He doesn't have to be anywhere near perfect like Superman and Wonder Woman, but give him something that makes people want to be him.

Say what you want about the current run of Black Panther, but historically speaking, he's been unabashedly badass and capable, with a great cast around him and diverse stories that have pushed him to the next level. Marvel has also made attempts with Luke Cage, Sam Wilson, and Spider-Man to give black characters opportunities to grow and change in their universe. If Cyborg got even half the creative effort those characters got, he might get enough good material to be a rival to Black Panther lol

So really, the problem isn't Cyborg so much as he just needs to be written better. That can be a problem for any character.

[Vic Vega]

Yeah, but he also wants work. Until recently at Marvel how many black characters get solo books. You got maybe 3-4 when Marvel wants to be progressive but that's rare. You want your name to come up.for nearly every book.

It's not like Priest doesn't make a point of color and culture in any book he writes.

By the way, I forgot to congratulate Brian Steelefreze on his Eisner nomination.

Working on any B or C list character gives you a 25 issues and out at best.

At least if you get put on the Flash its not going to get cancelled.

Rebooted maybe but not cancelled.

[Ezyo1000]

I think it's a matter of working with what the characters have in their concept and backstories. Cyborg could've started out as an abomination then develops to the point that it's no longer an issue. All that requires is literally a design change and 1 or 2 arcs where his insecurities are highlighted. He doesn't have to be anywhere near perfect like Superman and Wonder Woman, but give him something that makes people want to be him.

Say what you want about the current run of Black Panther, but historically speaking, he's been unabashedly badass and capable, with a great cast around him and diverse stories that have pushed him to the next level. Marvel has also made attempts with Luke Cage, Sam Wilson, and Spider-Man to give black characters opportunities to grow and change in their universe. If Cyborg got even half the creative effort those characters got, he might get enough good material to be a rival to Black Panther lol

Eh cyborg would need ALOT of creative Effort to rival T'Challa. But BOTH of them need more and consistently good showings to get to where they SHOULD be. T'Challa at least is much further along that path due to the MCU and Avengers cartoon

[Ezyo1000]

Working on any B or C list character gives you a 25 issues and out at best.

At least if you get put on the Flash its not going to get cancelled.

Rebooted maybe but not cancelled.

I think it depends nt he character, your definitely at a disadvantage, but I don't think Marvel anticipated on Ms Marvel, or Lady Thor to do as well as they have, Which has to do with the stories being told and the characters development and traits