Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[XPac]

I don't think it is. If Storm was out of X world, I don't think most would care if they were back. Someone sound off if Im wrong.

I'd be more convinced of that if posters refrained from attacking the Storm character as reasons for their relationship contonuing. Again, if AvX is an argument against it them whether or not X writers have control over the character is a separate issue entirely.

[Mr MajestiK]

Its not a double standard because the situations are not equal. Nakia can be retconed because she is a Priest invention. A BP writer can't retcon Storm without going through the X-office. And anything he does can be undone, so why bother? If Storm and Nakia were two characters invented within the BP franchise then you would have a point. AvX is used as the example of what can potentially happen no matter how well Coates writes a story. Because why waste the years if it slingshots back and forth?

Why anyone would find this hard to comprehend astounds me to say the least.

I don't think it is. If Storm was out of X world, I don't think most would care if they were back. Someone sound off if Im wrong.

You're not wrong at all my friend.

If Marvel editorial were in support of the two characters getting back together without the X-Office having an option to throw shade at T'Challa, I'd be open to that.

But since conventional wisdom based on what's gone before prevails, I don't see the same Marvel editorial that have allowed Coates to turn Wakanda into Rape Camp central, doing anything to reign the X-Office in anytime soon.

Once again, you speak nothing but wisdom. And am I the only one who was seething when Aaron fawned over the announcement of the Wakandan galactic empire? You’re not fooling anyone Aaron.

You weren't the only one my brother. :smh:

I'd be more convinced of that if posters refrained from attacking the Storm character as reasons for their relationship contonuing. Again, if AvX is an argument against it them whether or not X writers have control over the character is a separate issue entirely.

Cognizant dissonance and disingenuous abound herein.

Most posters have stated very clearly why they'd prefer for there to be no X-verse related characters or references in the Black Panther solo book moving forward so it's not as if there's been some clandestine maneuvers on the part of said posters.

I was firmly Team T'Challa & Ororo pretty AvX.

Post that sordid event?

Hell no. (As long as the X-Office remains in shade throwing mode.

Coates having the Midnight Angels espousing their admiration for the "fastback special" of Colossus and Wolverine fame shows just how much Coates was chomping at the bit to go chronicle some X-stuff.

It's unfortunate that he was allowed to use the Black Panther solo book as a convenient stepping stone from which to make his way onto an X-title.

But I suppose that he's not the first writer to use this tactic.

[butterflykyss]

I don't do disingenuous so please with all due respect, miss me with that.

AvX was not written by a Black Panther writer as the David Liss written Black Panther was inexplicably cancelled just in time for the first bout of never before depicted relationship dysfunctional discord between the then married couple, to be displayed.

Liss BP run opened with T'Challa and Ororo conferencing over a video link with Ororo clearly stating that she understood T'Challa's need to find himself again in the aftermath of Maberry's Doomwar.

Ororo even appeared in Liss's book and rescued T'Challa from certain death as he battled Kraken and even though T'Challa expressed initial displeasure at Ororo stepping in to help, he relented and acknowledged that he was genuinely pleased to see her.

There was no mention of the marital problems between them during Liss's run.

AvX comes along and all of a sudden, Ororo's talking about "marriage counsellors" and calling T'Challa a "bad husband."

And this was all written by X-writers or soon to be X-writers such as Aaron and Bendis.

The shade throwing was solidified and nailed down by Aaron who decided to chump out T'Challa by having him plead with Storm to not get into a relationship with Wolverine.

This was done in an X-book you know the same X-books that never had T'Challa appear in any of them when he and Ororo were married.

All of a sudden, a plethora of X-writers were virtually falling over themselves to see who could throw shade the most at T'Challa and his mythos and BP readers/enthusiasts just sat back and observed the shenanigans until Hickman brought T'Challa and Wakanda back in a big way during the Infinity event and the New Avengers book also penned by Hickman at the time.

BP enthusiasts could at least see T'Challa and the rest of the Illuminati fighting to save their Earth and the known universe from being destroyed without being subjected to the snide remarks and anti-BP shade that obtained in some of the X-books.

Now Coates (a self confessed X-fan) has come from out of nowhere, writing a neutered and wholly out of character T'Challa stumbling from one disaster to the next solving none solely by his own hand whilst exhibiting a level of incompetence that only someone who truly dislikes the BP mythos would foist upon his character.

Under Coates pen, dysfunction of the most stereotypical variety has become par the course within Wakanda even as this writer has used what was supposed to be T'Challa's solo book to push his pet characters and concepts whilst showcasing his ability to write a solid and in character Ororo to such a level of competence that he's now been commissioned to write a Storm solo book. (Which was his obvious intention all along)

Everything from his completely deliberate mischaraterization of T'Challa's relationship to the Dora Milajes plus the strong LGBTQ themes Coates use the BP solo book to push whilst pushing T'Challa further to the back of the bus, were ones more in line with the X-books metaphor for LGBTQ marginalisation from the mainstream.

The disingenuity you alluded to earlier, is clearly evident in everything Coates has done so far within the BP solo as well as Black Panther:WoW and Black Panther & The Crew.

The fact that both books were BP in name only whilst featuring every other character who appeared in said books not named T'Challa, being more competent and able than the titular character himself, further lays bare the aforementioned disingenuity on the part of the writer all the more.

Baring all of this in mind, it shouldn't come as a suprise to anyone that there would be a number of BP enthusiasts who would prefer for Coates to just move on to the X-verse so that a writer who genuinely understands T'Challa and appreciates the BP mythos can on board to do the mythos right.

I can imagine that in the aftermath of the Black Panther movies success, there will be a lot more writers looking to chronicle T'Challa's adventures as opposed to just using his mythos as a convenient platform from which to move on to the franchise they would have preferred being part off in the first place.

At the end of the day, I just want to be able to read about T'Challa, Shuri and the rest of Wakanda written by someone who genuinely wishes to write a well nuanced book featuring them accurately and in character.

Peace.

I'm not arguing against any of the points you mentioned. your whole point supports the main one I made which was that the problem with the characters is the writers and not necessarily the character. i was also arguing that people here are unable to get beyond the events of AvX as it relates to storm, but with other characters who did more egregious things they are willing to not hold it against them. none of that doesn't address the double standard question I had relating to storm. if you simply don't wish to read about storm, then fine. and let me be clear in generally speaking when I say you, but if fans here don't want that simply say that. instead what we have seen is people trashing storm and saying no she was a traitor, while propping characters who intentional wanted to harm wakandans.

How exactly did I call you out?

I merely questioned why you'd comment upon a post that you clearly admitted to have not read in its entirety.

As for "double standards" if T'Challa was going to be associating with Namor (albeit reluctantly) as part of the Illuminati, the possibility of his matching wits against Black Swan only for both of them to grow increasingly interwoven due to their both being Royalty and incredibly complicated individuals, would have made their interactions very interesting moving forward on the lethal attraction tip.

The fact that Hickman had Reed Richards interacting with Black Swan instead fell solidly in line with speculative fictions penchant to always have a straight white male solving conundrums at all times.

I'm one of the people who shipped Swan and T'Challa for the simple fact that it would have fit solidly into the tapestry of the incredibly warped and nihilistic journey into chaos that Hickman was weaving at that point.

Was I advocating a long term relationship between the two?

Nope

I was more intrigued with how B-swizzle and T'Challa's world views would have been impacted upon if they ever locked lips.

I'm strange like that.

you asked me why I made my post yesterday and then today u mentioned what occurred as a part of the problem.

and it's fine whatever your reasons are for wanting them to have a relationship but despite of those reasons, it will be perceived as a double standard when you charge storm shouldn't for some of the reasons I've seen here.

[Shadey]

I just simply want Coates off the title and replaced with someone that actually cares about the character and Wakandian mythos and do away with Storm and any x related thing as well. Let him move to the x side of things as that's what he obviously wants to write anyway. Let BP move on in the comics to bigger and better things like he is in every other medium. He's about to become a major A-Lister.

[Ezyo1000]

You weren't the only one my brother. :smh:

JA is a strange one for me. I like SWAD, hate AvX, But I liked his Tchalla in OS. So its rocky fo me

[Ezyo1000]

I'm not arguing against any of the points you mentioned. your whole point supports the main one I made which was that the problem with the characters is the writers and not necessarily the character. i was also arguing that people here are unable to get beyond the events of AvX as it relates to storm, but with other characters who did more egregious things they are willing to not hold it against them. none of that doesn't address the double standard question I had relating to storm. if you simply don't wish to read about storm, then fine. and let me be clear in generally speaking when I say you, but if fans here don't want that simply say that. instead what we have seen is people trashing storm and saying no she was a traitor, while propping characters who intentional wanted to harm wakandans.

Who are these characters you think are getting passes?
Because I can tell you, it's a lot less then you likely think

[Ezyo1000]

I just simply want Coates off the title and replaced with someone that actually cares about the character and Wakandian mythos and do away with Storm and any x related thing as well. Let him move to the x side of things as that's what he obviously wants to write anyway. Let BP move on in the comics to bigger and better things like he is in every other medium. He's about to become a major A-Lister.

I am cautiously optimistic with this Evan narcisse guy.
So far his interview he is saying all the right things. I just hope he pulls a Hudlin and not a Coates.

[butterflykyss]

Who are these characters you think are getting passes?
Because I can tell you, it's a lot less then you likely think

Nakia
Black Swan
Black Panther

i already explained why I called these particular characters out where it relates to double standards being made

[Ezyo1000]

Nakia
Black Swan
Black Panther

i already explained why I called these particular characters out where it relates to double standards being made

and what have they been given passes for? Swan is a Villain and never got a pass for anything. Nakia would either be a retcon or a different version or an older version created. I'm not sure what passes BP has gotten.

[XPac]

Nakia
Black Swan
Black Panther

i already explained why I called these particular characters out where it relates to double standards being made

Black Swan was always a weird shipper choice for me. Swan murders a couple Wakandan boys and blows up a planet, and suddenly people are envisioning these two hooking up?

It's like people were literally shipping him with the first female he had contact with after his marriage was annuled or something.

[Cville]

Nakia needs a retcon or a really really good redemption story

Black Swan is on my Cabal hit list. Unfortunately Hela killed her.(which should have been the first arc. Getting revenge on the Cabal)

[butterflykyss]

Black Swan was always a weird shipper choice for me. Swan murders a couple Wakandan boys and blows up a planet, and suddenly people are envisioning these two hooking up?

It's like people were literally shipping him with the first female he had contact with after his marriage was annuled or something.

it absolutely makes NO sense to me for the reasons you mentioned. but the thing is I don't even care that people want to push the two together. if that is what you want for Tchalla have at it. what bothers me is when people who want him with ororo are taken to task for the things that happened in avx, but then it is followed up with those same people wanting bs and him to be together.

Nakia needs a retcon or a really really good redemption story

Black Swan is on my Cabal hit list. Unfortunately Hela killed her.(which should have been the first arc. Getting revenge on the Cabal)

well I guess my question is do you see kmow why some are calling it a double standard?

[Cville]

it absolutely makes NO sense to me for the reasons you mentioned. but the thing is I don't even care that people want to push the two together. what bothers me is when people who want him with ororo are taken to task for the things that happened in avx, but then follow that up with wanting bs and him to be together.


well I guess my question is do you see kmow why some are calling it a double standard?

No, from what I've seen most people require extenuating circumstances such as retcons or reinvented characters. And considering nobody has yet to say that they wouldn't be ok with Storm being back if she was divorced from Xmen, I think its fair to say that people are treating everyone the same. But I'll give that post a week to simmer. The only characters I think I've seen being excepatable as currently written are the two Monicas. Although I have seen Lynn(sp) talked about becoming Inhuman or something. Of course I haven't read every post so I can only comment on what I've seen from the regular posters.

[butterflykyss]

No, from what I've seen most people require extenuating circumstances such as retcons or reinvented characters. And considering nobody has yet to say that they wouldn't be ok with Storm being back if she was divorced from Xmen, I think its fair to say that people are treating everyone the same. But I'll give that post a week to simmer. The only characters I think I've seen being excepatable as currently written are the two Monicas. Although I have seen Lynn(sp) talked about becoming Inhuman or something. Of course I haven't read every post so I can only comment on what I've seen from the regular posters.

there have been plenty who have said they just want storm gone as she has too much baggage and those are within the past 4 to 5 pages.

[Cville]

there have been plenty who have said they just want storm gone as she has too much baggage and those are within the past 4 to 5 pages.

Sure it wasn't because she is still tied to X franchise?