Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[XPac]

I saw an interview a while ago with Coates, who explained he likes asking tough questions without having the answers.

In the real world, that's fine. It's what we need.

But I think increasingly, in comics, it undermines T'Challa.

I think.comics, for better or for worse are moving in that direction. Not every conflict can have a hero fight that magical answer which makes everything okay in the end. It's what still usually happens ... but on occasion heroes sometimes don't walk away smelling like roses. Does it undermine the heroes? In some ways maybe. But I also think it creates more weight in the stories.

[Anthony Shaw]

I saw an interview a while ago with Coates, who explained he likes asking tough questions without having the answers.

In the real world, that's fine. It's what we need.

But I think increasingly, in comics, it undermines T'Challa.

That might work for X-Men, Punisher, & Daredevil....not BP.

The world of BP has a lot dark elements, but should never be defined by it....NEVER.

[Anthony Shaw]

I'd love Mephisto to be the next Black Panther villain. Boseman said his favorite BP story and moment ever is that scene. I think they should explore it, at least as subplot and hopefully Achebe is introduced in this first movie.

The good thing with the MCU and the marvel formula is that, barring contract disputes, the cast you see in the first movie is pretty much what they'll be sticking with for the duration of the trilogy. Plus rape camps and rape culture is something Disney probably doesn't care for in their movie franchise meant to reach out to little black girls.

That story was just awesome. I never read a story like that before. I would love to see Achebe in live action. It is a shame his madness has not been seen since Priest.

I am loving the influx of strong black women....in a comic book film, no less!

Who would've thought someone would ever think to confuse the two?! lmao

smh!

My mind is a strange thing to make such a connection, but I felt it was appropriate.

[XPac]

Why can't they give it back. If Coates was a true SJW that is what should happen.

Didn't Priest make it clear enough that he is not a superhero.

Well, I guess theoretically if Wakanda has a galactic empire anyways they probably could give SOME of it back.

But those are the tough choices T'Challa will have to make. He needs to balance the good of his people with what arguably can be seen as doing the morally right thing. And potentially those 2 things conflict.

I'm pretty darn sure T'Chaka wouldn't give them their land back, but T'Challa is a different sort of king. Either way, that's what makes the conflict interesting. The right thing to do isn't so clear cut.

[Cville]

Well, I guess theoretically if Wakanda has a galactic empire anyways they probably could give SOME of it back.

But those are the tough choices T'Challa will have to make. He needs to balance the good of his people with what arguably can be seen as doing the morally right thing. And potentially those 2 things conflict.

I'm pretty darn sure T'Chaka wouldn't give them their land back, but T'Challa is a different sort of king. Either way, that's what makes the conflict interesting. The right thing to do isn't so clear cut.

It is clear. Give it back.

[XPac]

It is clear. Give it back.

I think that might be the right thing to do on a more abstract theoretical way but I wouldn't exactly say that it's clear. You're talking about a bunch of races justifiably or not, have attacked Wakanda. It creates a potentially dangerous situation. As King T'Challa does have a responsibility to look after the welfare of his people and the safety of his nation. Giving back his land potentially does come into conflict with that.

But at the same time, these are sentient beings who were driven out of their rightful homeland. And that's where him being more than just a king but a super hero might factor in. Most kings would probably give the originators the finger, but T'Challa might actually want to do them right despite the inherent risks there.

I don't think it's necessarily an easy call either way. Which again I think is why this situation works.

[Rumble]

I don't need to post this, but the point of the Doras was to keep the various tribes on chill within the land by selecting women from various tribes (where one might become a queen).

That came from Priest.

Tribal warfare & ethnic cleansing were hot topics on the 1990s in Africa, Europe, and the Middle East.

I am sure Priest drew upon that while writing BP during the late 90s.

Each tribe, with their totems, are not that different than the 9 realms of Asgard, imo.

Yup, you're preaching to the choir.

But others prefer selective memory and pretending that Wakanda was always some idealized perfect society with no problems. And when you say "um... no. what about ___, ____ and ____"

they like "Nope! It doesn't count!"

"That was different!"

lmao aint no damn difference. Other than it didn't suck when Priest wrote it.

[Cville]

MoS came through with that knowledge. Not looking god for Storm fans. Scan could be seen as an analog to Storm and Klaw.

[Rumble]

Why can't they give it back. If Coates was a true SJW that is what should happen.

Didn't Priest make it clear enough that he is not a superhero.

Ta-Nehisi hates the idea of King T'Challa being a king.

And now he hates that people have called him out on it and that he has to scale back on the rape culture.

He also wants to be the Priest of the mytho so he wants to do the exact opposite of what Priest did. What's the end goal here? To tell black people "see! stop being so hard on white american history, b/c wakandans are guilty of such atrocities as well!" It's that CNS (coon negro syndrome). The Jason Whitlock of black comic book writers.

[Anthony Shaw]

Yup, you're preaching to the choir.

But others prefer selective memory and pretending that Wakanda was always some idealized perfect society with no problems. And when you say "um... no. what about ___, ____ and ____"

they like "Nope! It doesn't count!"

"That was different!"

lmao aint no damn difference. Other than it didn't suck when Priest wrote it.

The debut story of Man-Ape was the first sign all was not well within Wakanda. (House) Roy Thomas wrote that. Bless Kirby for giving us Houseroy, lol!

Don wrote Panther's Rage which not only debuted Killmonger, but clearly showed Wakanda had deep internal issues. Oh yeah, Wakandans did not like BP's American lover, Monica. The snobbish, xenophobia ways of the people existed back in the 1970s before Priest & Hudlin.

The fact T'Challa was educated outside Wakanda was an example of the land needing a ruler to look at things from a non-traditional perspective. After Klaw's invasion, Wakanda could not go exclusively back to the old ways of handling things. That explains T'Challa's brazen challenge of the fantastic Four in his debut story. That came from Stan & Jack in the 1960s.

Wakanda always had 99 problems....but being a perfect utopia ain't one.

The constant attempts to deconstruct Wakanda & its King needs to stop.

[Ezyo1000]

I guess some people don't understand what subjective opinions are. I have no problem with people disliking or hating Coates run. If it isn't for them, for whatever reason, great. That's totally valid. But someone's dislike of something doesn't mean that it is inherently lacking in value for everyone.

It does make one wonder how people can be okay with all these racial stereotypes and offensive portrayal of Africa Coates is drawing from. And there are ALOT of offensive stereotypes in here. All of which go against the mythos

[butterflykyss]

MoS came through with that knowledge. Not looking god for Storm fans. Scan could be seen as an analog to Storm and Klaw.

how is this not good for storm fans??

[Ezyo1000]

But I think that's what layers the story. I'd the Originators just attached the gums ms for no reason, we could just write them off as tour atypical bad guys.

This creates a conflict with a bit of depth to it. The humans somehow insulted the Originators but the originators attacked the humans. The originators are now fighting for their homelamd, but obviously the Wakamdans can't just give it back.

The social and political issues dogging this conflict are where T'Calla had to be more than just a super hero punching out the monsters. I think he needs to be a king here too. To me this is the perfect sort of story for a character like him.

The natives were invaded by pilgrims and said Pilgrims insulted them in some sense so they wanted to drive them out.. why does that sound familiar?.. yet they are the bad guys? No this is simply Coates injecting white guilt onto the BP mythos to keep Black's from being seen as exceptional (remember how Wakanda was supposed to be the beacon to the rest of the world? Yeah Coates doesn't like that so he is trying to tear them down instead)

[Agent Z]

I'd love Mephisto to be the next Black Panther villain. Boseman said his favorite BP story and moment ever is that scene. I think they should explore it, at least as subplot and hopefully Achebe is introduced in this first movie.

The good thing with the MCU and the marvel formula is that, barring contract disputes, the cast you see in the first movie is pretty much what they'll be sticking with for the duration of the trilogy. Plus rape camps and rape culture is something Disney probably doesn't care for in their movie franchise meant to reach out to little black girls.



Who would've thought someone would ever think to confuse the two?! lmao

smh!

I love T'Challa but I'ma kill him dead 'fore I let Coates ruin him

[Ezyo1000]

I think.comics, for better or for worse are moving in that direction. Not every conflict can have a hero fight that magical answer which makes everything okay in the end. It's what still usually happens ... but on occasion heroes sometimes don't walk away smelling like roses. Does it undermine the heroes? In some ways maybe. But I also think it creates more weight in the stories.

Lol no making comics like real life doesn't create more weighted stories. Comics have been see as the world outside our window for decades and have not resembled real life plenty of times yet the stories had weight. Why?
Because the writer wanted to tell a compelling Story with the title character doing amazing things
Not degrade them and everything their mythos stand's for into an racists view of a real existing place, and making this place that promotes a ton of positives into. Stereotypical negative stuff people are tired of seeing