Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[Vibranium Weave]

In the 60s when Jack Kirby and Stan Lee created Black Panther, there goals was to go against the negative stereotypes of Africans (especially in those days). Africans were believed to be very poor, so they made T'Challa one of the richest men in the world. African were believed to not be intelligent, so they made Wakanda technologically advanced that even Reed Richards marveled. Africans were believed to not be able to defend themselves, so they had T'Challa whoop the Fantastic Four.

Kirby and Lee went against the sterotypes, Priest & Hudlin carried out that tradition. Now we have Coates' run....

Coates now has added rape camps,
incompetent rulers,
Wakanda as a nation of invaders, exploitation, and misogyny
Suicide bombers, kidnappers (boko haram)
Women treated as property to be given to men
Slavery of Wakandans
Now colonizers

Coates has missed the mark on what the Black Panther mythos was supposed to represent. He has undone the work of Priest, Hudlin, Lee, and Kirby.

It's very sad.

[Cville]

how is this not good for storm fans??

At least for those who believe in her divinity. At this point it could be interpreted as the Orisha were mutants until belief in them turned them into gods. Which going by the theme from previous issues means she is only as godly as people believe.

[XPac]

Lol no making comics like real life doesn't create more weighted stories. Comics have been see as the world outside our window for decades and have not resembled real life plenty of times yet the stories had weight. Why?
Because the writer wanted to tell a compelling Story with the title character doing amazing things
Not degrade them and everything their mythos stand's for into an racists view of a real existing place, and making this place that promotes a ton of positives into. Stereotypical negative stuff people are tired of seeing

I'm not saying stories can't have weight without realism... but yes I do think that level of believability can give a story a lot more layers to it.

Ultimately it's a matter of preference. Some writers (and readers for that matter) prefer stories with greater realism and some don't. There's no right or wrong to it. But I do believe in recent years there was been somewhat of a trend towards greater realism in the genre.

[XPac]

The natives were invaded by pilgrims and said Pilgrims insulted them in some sense so they wanted to drive them out.. why does that sound familiar?.. yet they are the bad guys? No this is simply Coates injecting white guilt onto the BP mythos to keep Black's from being seen as exceptional (remember how Wakanda was supposed to be the beacon to the rest of the world? Yeah Coates doesn't like that so he is trying to tear them down instead)

Again, I'm not entirely sure there are clear cut bad guys in this situation.

Yes, the humans did somehow insult the Originators, but the Originators attacked the humans in retaliation. And once attacked, the humans had every right to drive away those threatening them. I think both sides frankly have a valid perspective in this scenario. It's not a case of a bunch of evil monsters wrongly threatening innocents here and requiring a super hero to come along and punch them out. They have a legitimate beef, in that it' perfectly understandable that they would want to reclaim their homeland. Coversely the Wakandans now have every right to want to defend themselves. I don't think either side can be entirely faulted, nor do I think either side is completely innocent. But that's the moral and political mine field T'Challa will now have to wade through, and again it's the perfect story for a character like him who is both a political figure and a hero. Because there's no clear cut moreally correct solution here.

But certainly you can draw real life parallels to some of thing. Like a lot of stories, real life politics, issues, and history can be metaphorically addressed in stories. We'll see how T'Challa ends up addressing those problems... presumably he'll do so better than how real life parallels did but we'll see.

[XPac]

At least for those who believe in her divinity. At this point it could be interpreted as the Orisha were mutants until belief in them turned them into gods. Which going by the theme from previous issues means she is only as godly as people believe.

THat sort of confused me too. I wonder if Coates is sort of retconning Bast to NOT be the Egyptian god but rather some Wakandan hero or whatever.

Continuity wise I'm not a big fan of the idea, though part of me honestly would prefer it if the Wakandan gods weren't the Egyptian gods.

[Ezyo1000]

In the 60s when Jack Kirby and Stan Lee created Black Panther, there goals was to go against the negative stereotypes of Africans (especially in those days). Africans were believed to be very poor, so they made T'Challa one of the richest men in the world. African were believed to not be intelligent, so they made Wakanda technologically advanced that even Reed Richards marveled. Africans were believed to not be able to defend themselves, so they had T'Challa whoop the Fantastic Four.

Kirby and Lee went against the sterotypes, Priest & Hudlin carried out that tradition. Now we have Coates' run....

Coates now has added rape camps,
incompetent rulers,
Wakanda as a nation of invaders, exploitation, and misogyny
Suicide bombers, kidnappers (boko haram)
Women treated as property to be given to men
Slavery of Wakandans
Now colonizers

Coates has missed the mark on what the Black Panther mythos was supposed to represent. He has undone the work of Priest, Hudlin, Lee, and Kirby.

It's very sad.

That's the big thing I think people are missing when they say they like his take. If you like it Fine, but also realize what Coates is doing. His "deep and complex run"
goes against the what Lee and Kirby created, they wanted to create a Wakanda free of racial stereotypes and Coates is bringing them in full throttle under the guise of "fixing Wakanda and fleshing it out" and I ask to what? A racial stereotype people want to be rid of? That's no progress

[Cville]

THat sort of confused me too. I wonder if Coates is sort of retconning Bast to NOT be the Egyptian god but rather some Wakandan hero or whatever.

Continuity wise I'm not a big fan of the idea, though part of me honestly would prefer it if the Wakandan gods weren't the Egyptian gods.

They are not originally. Belief in this spread over time to different regions. As Tchalla said during the Moonnight crossover.

[Rumble]

In the 60s when Jack Kirby and Stan Lee created Black Panther, there goals was to go against the negative stereotypes of Africans (especially in those days). Africans were believed to be very poor, so they made T'Challa one of the richest men in the world. African were believed to not be intelligent, so they made Wakanda technologically advanced that even Reed Richards marveled. Africans were believed to not be able to defend themselves, so they had T'Challa whoop the Fantastic Four.

Kirby and Lee went against the sterotypes, Priest & Hudlin carried out that tradition. Now we have Coates' run....

Coates now has added rape camps,
incompetent rulers,
Wakanda as a nation of invaders, exploitation, and misogyny
Suicide bombers, kidnappers (boko haram)
Women treated as property to be given to men
Slavery of Wakandans
Now colonizers

Coates has missed the mark on what the Black Panther mythos was supposed to represent. He has undone the work of Priest, Hudlin, Lee, and Kirby.

It's very sad.

It's pretty sad that a couple hippy Jewish white men in the 60s were more woke than a 2017 pseudo-afro intellectual black writer.

I understand the non black people making excuses for the castration of a black mythology (but shout out to the non-blacks that "get it" and see through the bs), but for Ta-Nehisi and all other black brothers in that same sunken place, it's a sad sad sight indeed.

But you can't save all of them.

[Mike_Murdock]

Tchalla came out okay, in just undermines Wakanda as a civilization. lol

So aliens comes from that portal which is hundreds of miles from the central city and people come and because humans are evil there is a war.

I don't think it's that. Just that there were tensions. The story seems to explicitly say the Originators actually attacked first.

Pretty sure the prison dumping was done post Wakanda as the explanation was aliens wanted to keep human busy.

Ross speculates that the portal could have been the original of life on Earth, so it obviously wasn't just a recent thing. If the prison dumping was recent, it seems the portal is much older.

[Rumble]

I love T'Challa but I'ma kill him dead 'fore I let Coates ruin him

Amen brother. Ta-Nehisi is a loser who believes that misery is company, and wants black panther fans to be his guests of honor

[XPac]

They are not originally. Belief in this spread over time to different regions. As Tchalla said during the Moonnight crossover.

Well, the Moon Knight cross over really was the silver lining to retconning the Panther God into Bast. It allowed a cross over I always wanted to see from two of my favorite super heroes.

Still, the Panther God was originally it's own thing rather than being part of the Egyptian Gods, who were already established characters in Thor. I guess I never understood the need to retcon the Panther God into Bast. Though at the same time, I'm not sure there's a need to unretcon it, if that's what Coates is doing. But like I said, I'm not entirely sure there.

[butterflykyss]

At least for those who believe in her divinity. At this point it could be interpreted as the Orisha were mutants until belief in them turned them into gods. Which going by the theme from previous issues means she is only as godly as people believe.

oh that's not bad news lolol. it was already established in issue 17 the belief the wakandans had in her allowed her to utilize divine power or become divine. this revelation that the Wakandan gods were heroes first doesn't change that.

[Cville]

I don't think it's that. Just that there were tensions. The story seems to explicitly say the Originators actually attacked first.



Ross speculates that the portal could have been the original of life on Earth, so it obviously wasn't just a recent thing. If the prison dumping was recent, it seems the portal is much older.

That's what I mean as far as prison dumping goes.

Attacked because humans are obsessed with title and lacking in grace. And based on how Mother described Wakandas rise, the humans were in the wrong.

[Cville]

Well, the Moon Knight cross over really was the silver lining to retconning the Panther God into Bast. It allowed a cross over I always wanted to see from two of my favorite super heroes.

Still, the Panther God was originally it's own thing rather than being part of the Egyptian Gods, who were already established characters in Thor. I guess I never understood the need to retcon the Panther God into Bast. Though at the same time, I'm not sure there's a need to unretcon it, if that's what Coates is doing. But like I said, I'm not entirely sure there.

Think about it like this. If Wakanda existed before the first dynasty and the Nubians and Egyptions knew about their civilization maybe even traded with them, they might have adopted their gods. Which should please you since you like realism.

There are some layers for you. lol

[XPac]

That's what I mean as far as prison dumping goes.

Attacked because humans are obsessed with title and lacking in grace. And based on how Mother described Wakandas rise, the humans were in the wrong.

I think this is a case where neither part is innocent. Yes, the humans did something which insulted the originators but that doesn't necessarily mean the humans don't have the right to defend themselves if they are attacked. I'm not completely defending the humans either, but if you're attacked you do what you gotta do. And in this case, unfortunately for the originators that meant them being forced out of their home. The originators started the fight, and the humans and gods finished it.