1. #62776
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    So if Uncle Ben turned out to be one of those guys who held a person captive in the basement, how would Spiderman fans react?
    Not the same thing, not even close. A better example would have been if T'Chaka was the aggressor in the original encounter with Klaw. However, that's not what happened in this issue.

    This isn't a direct retcon that really effects BP or T'Challa like that, as it still stands the first Panther was formed to protect the Great Mound and unite the various factions under the Panther tribe. Even if it was we know Wakanda history isn't spotless. It's even said in the primer in the back that Wakanda took the Fields from would become Niganda. T'Chaka and previous BPs history is known. Hickman FF run pretty much hinted at it as well. Wakandans are warriors there people have never been conquered doesn't mean at one point they weren't the conquerors.

  2. #62777
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_haos View Post
    Not the same thing, not even close. A better example would have been if T'Chaka was the aggressor in the original encounter with Klaw. However, that's not what happened in this issue.

    This isn't a direct retcon that really effects BP or T'Challa like that, as it still stands the first Panther was formed to protect the Great Mound and unite the various factions under the Panther tribe. Even if it was we know Wakanda history isn't spotless. It's even said in the primer in the back that Wakanda took the Fields from would become Niganda. T'Chaka and previous BPs history is known. Hickman FF run pretty much hinted at it as well. Wakandans are warriors there people have never been conquered doesn't mean at one point they weren't the conquerors.
    It doesn't say that. It says the Nigandans "believe" that.
    Tchallas reaction is what counts. If he blew it off and said "it's so long ago before Wakanda was officially formed" than who cares. But the fact that he has a strong reaction to it is what matters.
    At this point he should leave the gates open and lead the Wakandans out of the area. Use his wealth to buy unoccupied land.

  3. #62778
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phumgano View Post
    How long is Coates staying on for, another 5 years? Was that his plan.
    Well, he said he had five years of ideas. If he writes for all of that, it wouldn't be another five years, but another three and a half years.
    Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

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  4. #62779
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Lol you don't see how it makes BP or Wakanda safe?
    Coates has taken all the positive things about BP and Wakanda and "fixed" them into offensive stereotypes. It can be much clearer then that. So you think that the world outside our window from BP Should be an offensive western view point of Africa and Black's in general? Because that what Coates thinks. He deflated Tchalla because he seems to have thought Tchalla has always been portrayed as "awesome awesome awesome" so he deconstructs him after he just had 8+ year's of poor handling and deconstruction. Then he starts taking cool aspects of Priest run and Hudlins and starts taking away from them with this poor view of black males "A man with that many beautiful women around him couldn't possibly not take advantage of that" he then takes a nation that has more respect and giving women high positions in their society as equals and has a mostly female supporting cast of capable women and turns it into Black dysfunction. Men are evil rapist, or inept uncaring fools and women are just poor victims that must rally together to fight the evil Black man. Contrived plots and he is inserting crap that literally goes against the mythos, you know the one telling Jewish guys came up with and shown more respect for and apparently more woke then Coates.

    Safe negro and his safe negro nation is what Coates is trying to portray. They aren't any better then the rest of the world, they are colonists who took over the indigenous peoples land and drove them out in chains, while also having another Black man earlier in the Issue in chains and being told he is a slave to Wakanda... I mean this is safe negro syndrome running full throttle and it's Insulting. ESPECIALLY with Coogler and T'chadwick coming correct and showing a powerful, positive, inspiring, and amazing Black panther for little boys and girls to look up to. They are making Tchalla into some kids Spiderman (or really I should say into some kids Black Panther), Coates is making BP into Black people's white guilt
    So all men in Wakanda are portrayed as rapist? Nope
    All women are portrayed as victims? Nope
    The level of internal conflict is the same as in prior runs whether rebellions, coups or criminal acts.
    Banding together to fight an evil black man has been a starting point for many stellar BP arcs

    The difference between what you are describing is context. Wakanda has never been morally better than the rest of the world.That's a lot of projection if you think about a lot of people in the world are colonist and a lot of people have grievances. They were spirits/extra dimensional beings came into conflict with others who wanted to share resources. It happens, I am surprised by the need be upset by this revelation as opposed to anything else that was questionable under prior BP scribes as it relates to Wakandan history Priest/Jabari and Hudlin/Niganda. As far Dr. Franklin Shuri said he was a slave to his circumstance but if he were to break his agreement he would be dealt with. But would that scene be viewed any different if instead of Thunderball they used Wrecker or Absorbing Man? Yeah if he was trying to portray "safe" I think there a lot of other ways that would have been worse off but I don't think that's what he is doing and I don't think Marvel would let him if he tried.

  5. #62780
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    It doesn't say that. It says the Nigandans "believe" that.
    Tchallas reaction is what counts. If he blew it off and said "it's so long ago before Wakanda was officially formed" than who cares. But the fact that he has a strong reaction to it is what matters.
    At this point he should leave the gates open and lead the Wakandans out of the area. Use his wealth to buy unoccupied land.
    At this point the Nigandans are probably in the right.

    Is reaction is anything it's that he will act. Will it be the right response I do not know, this run unlike others as challenged the hero//king notion. If anything this could be the catalyst for Wakandans leaving and going into space.

    However, there are many disputes throughout the world that involve land and resources using aliens/spirits whatever is an interesting take. I for one don't think it would be that simple as just buying unoccupied land we are talking thousands and thousands of years ago. Even if BP were to but land would his people move? Definitely a dilemma but one that could potentially be resolved especially with the inclusion of Klaw. If the gates have to be manned the likelihood of BP attaining godhood just increased abit putting it at 45% right now

  6. #62781
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_haos View Post
    At this point the Nigandans are probably in the right.

    Is reaction is anything it's that he will act. Will it be the right response I do not know, this run unlike others as challenged the hero//king notion. If anything this could be the catalyst for Wakandans leaving and going into space.

    However, there are many disputes throughout the world that involve land and resources using aliens/spirits whatever is an interesting take. I for one don't think it would be that simple as just buying unoccupied land we are talking thousands and thousands of years ago. Even if BP were to but land would his people move? Definitely a dilemma but one that could potentially be resolved especially with the inclusion of Klaw. If the gates have to be manned the likelihood of BP attaining godhood just increased abit putting it at 45% right now
    Doenst matter if it's one million years ago. The originals are still alive and they want it back. And if Tchalla is as noble as everyone says he'll give it back and find a way to convince his people.

  7. #62782

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Murdock View Post
    Well, he said he had five years of ideas. If he writes for all of that, it wouldn't be another five years, but another three and a half years.
    Shit! Longer than Trump!

    Thankfully we have a movie coming out that has a T'Challa and Wakanda we can be proud of!

    I'm also look forward to the one-shot with Hudlin in February!

    I loved Hudlin's 2008 Black Panther Annual "Black to the Future" and am super interested in his sequel to that story!


    Excelsior!

    Daoud

  8. #62783
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daoud View Post
    Shit! Longer than Trump!

    Thankfully we have a movie coming out that has a T'Challa and Wakanda we can be proud of!

    I'm also look forward to the one-shot with Hudlin in February!

    I loved Hudlin's 2008 Black Panther Annual "Black to the Future" and am super interested in his sequel to that story!


    Excelsior!

    Daoud
    Ta-Nehisi bitches about Trump while coming in as the Trump of the Black Panther mythos.

    If Trump cared about comics, he'd be tweeting Ta-Nehisi "good job on an accurate depiction of a long overrated African civilization!"

  9. #62784
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    So if Uncle Ben turned out to be one of those guys who held a person captive in the basement, how would Spiderman fans react?
    If "with great power comes great responsibility" was built on using said power to rape women imprisoned in friendly neghborhood basements? Hmmm..

    Well, I'd imagine Spider-Man fans would respectfully decline having such a recton and raping of their mytho. And if it wasn't a choice, a la the lack of choice inherent in rape, I think it probable they wouldn't like it very much, or see the value of it.

    So i would make an educated guess and say the response would be really negative.

  10. #62785
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  11. #62786
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_haos View Post
    So all men in Wakanda are portrayed as rapist? Nope
    All women are portrayed as victims? Nope
    The level of internal conflict is the same as in prior runs whether rebellions, coups or criminal acts.
    Banding together to fight an evil black man has been a starting point for many stellar BP arcs
    First off, I said in the run the men were portrayed as either rapists or inept uncaring fools, way to try and twist my words to fit your argument. And that is true. Every single male who was in S1 either was inept, uncaring, or a rapist. And yes the women in S1 were also all being treated like victims that had to rally against men. The MA included acted like victims.

    And what are you even talking about? Banding together to fight an evil Black man is the start to many stellar BP arcs? Lol I find it interesting your trying to twist my words to make your argument. Coates is using black dysfunction to tell his story. Putting Black men vs women and saying things Like "Women bred by men to be given to other men"
    as if they are property, which BP mythos has Always had a high respect for women.



    The difference between what you are describing is context. Wakanda has never been morally better than the rest of the world.That's a lot of projection if you think about a lot of people in the world are colonist and a lot of people have grievances. They were spirits/extra dimensional beings came into conflict with others who wanted to share resources. It happens, I am surprised by the need be upset by this revelation as opposed to anything else that was questionable under prior BP scribes as it relates to Wakandan history Priest/Jabari and Hudlin/Niganda. As far Dr. Franklin Shuri said he was a slave to his circumstance but if he were to break his agreement he would be dealt with. But would that scene be viewed any different if instead of Thunderball they used Wrecker or Absorbing Man? Yeah if he was trying to portray "safe" I think there a lot of other ways that would have been worse off but I don't think that's what he is doing and I don't think Marvel would let him if he tried.
    Wakanda represented a technologically and spiritually advanced nation in which science and religion didn't clash an co coexist. Wakanda had a higher moral standard then the rest of the world, they weren't perfect and I never said they were, but they represented a higher potential for the rest of the world to be better spiritually.

    As for jabari yea the reason they were banished was because they rebelled and tried to take over the panther cult, they lost and we're banished. What was questionable about the Wakanda and Niganda history in Hudlin's run?
    Nothing, Wakanda didn't interfere with other countries and didn't until Niganda invaded and what did they do? Neutralized a dictators hold over s country so the people could have more freedom... Do questionable. Coates is now saying Wakandans came to a place that wasn't their land and drove out the indigenous people who lived there. Doesn't matter of they are monsters it still wasn't their land and they took it.

    As for Thunderball it doesn't matter of it were him or wrecker or absorbing man, The fact that they are calling him a slave is Insulting, especially Given what that means to Black people and it so casually thrown around.

    And yeah he is being safe, By the utter poor treatment of Bp and the Mythos as a whole. And I don't know why you think Marvel wouldn't let him do it
    See what Marvel let happened with Doom war, or in AvX. Difference is that a Black Man is writing it so they can't say "it's not racists because it's a Black man". This is easy stuff to spot

  12. #62787
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daoud View Post
    Shit! Longer than Trump!

    Thankfully we have a movie coming out that has a T'Challa and Wakanda we can be proud of!

    I'm also look forward to the one-shot with Hudlin in February!

    I loved Hudlin's 2008 Black Panther Annual "Black to the Future" and am super interested in his sequel to that story!


    Excelsior!

    Daoud
    Thank goodness for the MCU!

  13. #62788
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    It doesn't say that. It says the Nigandans "believe" that
    Tchallas reaction is what counts. If he blew it off and said "it's so long ago before Wakanda was officially formed" than who cares. But the fact that he has a strong reaction to it is what matters.
    At this point he should leave the gates open and lead the Wakandans out of the area. Use his wealth to buy unoccupied land.
    Given Wakanda has a Galactic Empire, leaving Wakanda in theory could be an option. Presumably a galactic empire would have plenty of space for their people.

    That said, you can equally argue that T'CHalla would be doing his own people a disservice by having them abandon their nation that way.

    I think some sort of compromise can be met which potentially can make everyone happy without having to completely remove their people. Not that any level of compromise isn't without risk... but their people shared the land at one point so it's not impossible.

  14. #62789
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    First off, I said in the run the men were portrayed as either rapists or inept uncaring fools, way to try and twist my words to fit your argument. And that is true. Every single male who was in S1 either was inept, uncaring, or a rapist. And yes the women in S1 were also all being treated like victims that had to rally against men. The MA included acted like victims.

    And what are you even talking about? Banding together to fight an evil Black man is the start to many stellar BP arcs? Lol I find it interesting your trying to twist my words to make your argument. Coates is using black dysfunction to tell his story. Putting Black men vs women and saying things Like "Women bred by men to be given to other men"
    as if they are property, which BP mythos has Always had a high respect for women.





    Wakanda represented a technologically and spiritually advanced nation in which science and religion didn't clash an co coexist. Wakanda had a higher moral standard then the rest of the world, they weren't perfect and I never said they were, but they represented a higher potential for the rest of the world to be better spiritually.

    As for jabari yea the reason they were banished was because they rebelled and tried to take over the panther cult, they lost and we're banished. What was questionable about the Wakanda and Niganda history in Hudlin's run?
    Nothing, Wakanda didn't interfere with other countries and didn't until Niganda invaded and what did they do? Neutralized a dictators hold over s country so the people could have more freedom... Do questionable. Coates is now saying Wakandans came to a place that wasn't their land and drove out the indigenous people who lived there. Doesn't matter of they are monsters it still wasn't their land and they took it.

    As for Thunderball it doesn't matter of it were him or wrecker or absorbing man, The fact that they are calling him a slave is Insulting, especially Given what that means to Black people and it so casually thrown around.

    And yeah he is being safe, By the utter poor treatment of Bp and the Mythos as a whole. And I don't know why you think Marvel wouldn't let him do it
    See what Marvel let happened with Doom war, or in AvX. Difference is that a Black Man is writing it so they can't say "it's not racists because it's a Black man". This is easy stuff to spot
    I've said this before, but if the Wakandans were willing to go to over over a Dora dating, then the notion of them being spiritually advanced can be put into question.

    Wakandans are ultimately just people, like everyone else. They can have the same faults and make the same mistakes. It's not like we haven't seen crime and super villains in Wakanda before. Obviously in a comic book those elements are necessary.

  15. #62790
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_haos View Post
    At this point the Nigandans are probably in the right.

    Is reaction is anything it's that he will act. Will it be the right response I do not know, this run unlike others as challenged the hero//king notion. If anything this could be the catalyst for Wakandans leaving and going into space
    .

    However, there are many disputes throughout the world that involve land and resources using aliens/spirits whatever is an interesting take. I for one don't think it would be that simple as just buying unoccupied land we are talking thousands and thousands of years ago. Even if BP were to but land would his people move? Definitely a dilemma but one that could potentially be resolved especially with the inclusion of Klaw. If the gates have to be manned the likelihood of BP attaining godhood just increased abit putting it at 45% right now
    What are you even talking about? Every. Single. BP series deals with the hero vs king notion. Literally every single BP series. That paragraph right there shows either a lack of knowledge of BPs history, or willing ignorance of it

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