Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[Iconic]

Just read the annual. Wow. Three great stories. The impact of Hudlin's story was something special.

[Punjabi_Hitman]

You mean the war dogs? They were already in place on their spy assignments. They were supposed to give them to unknown groups

Yeah War Dogs sorry.

[XPac]

Yah he was prepared to fight a civil war by gaining W'Kabi's tribe onto his side. W'Kabi's tribe was the most experienced fighters out of the whole country since they protect the borders.

That is what he knows. Gain the trust of the rebels, give them weapons and train them to destabilize the regime, fight alongside them to win the civil war, then implement a gov't. He knew how to do this form the frontlines as he was a trained Special Forces solder who is solely trained to topple gov'ts, not a diplomatic politician.

Kilmonger is T'Chaka just on the extreme of the other side of the spectrum. On one extreme you have T'Chaka who works secretively and diplomatically who believes isolationaism is the best way to rule his people. He doesn't believe he needs to help other people as his people are taken care of. On the other you have a war mongering, soldier, who believes people are suffering around the world due to a country who can make the change isolates itself and that colonialism is the only way to impose that will to bring change around the world.

Both had closed minded beliefs, one due to respect of traditions the other due to blind rage.

This may be what he knows... but the point being he's not wise enough to realize he doesn't know enough. Which is why in the end he would fail. He's intelligent... but he doesn't have the wisdom to apply that intelligence in any sort of beneficial way, hence why he's an idiot.

And yes, to some degree he was ready for a Civil War (though not ready enough since he lost), but the fact that he's doing into a situation where he needs to fight both a global and civil war was his recipe for failure. You can't control the rest of the world when you can't even keep your own house in order.

[Rumble]

From the deeper corners of the net, I've seen people saying that Tchalla is the bad guy for stopping the "black' revolution. They imagined that Erik was sending them to all the black revolutionaries around the world.

Why I love the dynamic of T'Challa vs Erik (it's better than Xavier vs Magneto) is because there is that train of thought that the only way you bring about change is (1) through violence or threat of violence, or (2) through loss of money or threat of losing money. Basically that all that kumbaya shit doesn't work because the people at the top remain at the top and unless they give up or split their power, there will never be proper checks and balances. The issue then, is that you're not gonna convince 13 of the 28 NBA owners who are white (out of 30 total) to step down from their comfortable positions and hand their billion dollar teams over to people of color for the sake of proper checks and balances.. lmao. And that's just a microcosm.

So Erik, whose been through war destabilizing countries and killing thousands, he knows the brutal route in fast-tracking to a 'revolution'. But the other issue, and T'Challa's perspective, then becomes... well at what point does the killing stop? Cuz now you're killing colonizers, you're killing colonizer-lovers, and then you have to conquer those you helped conquer and kill them if they don't fall under Wakandan supremacy...

Epic shit. T'Challa vs Erik

GOAT rivalry

People are gonna pick their sides and philosophies, and that's why this is the GOAT movie

[Ezyo1000]

Coogler also made T’Challa a fleshed out multifaceted character on film but some folks want to be upset that people liked a character played by a actor who supposedly was to be the weak link of the movie and he took time to also make the rest of BP’s supporting cast fleshed out.

We was supposed to like T’Challa and T’Challa only

Ironically the thing people are complaining about (Tchalla not getting all the screen time) is actually what makes other superhero movies weaker, they take their supporting cast, introduce them Then they go into a Limbo until the climax then They come out to help. That show falcon was introduced.

I'll use another example.

Thor's warrior 3. Introduced in first Thor, and they did very little. They had no development and funny enough, the YouTube channel honest trailer's makes a joke about how in Thor and Thor 2, they change out one of the warrior 3 Characters with a different actor and said " You probably didn't even realize it was a different guy" which is true. They were so inconsequential that I didn't know that the guy was different. Then they are killed in Rag early on. No development, just showed up and were just there essentially, and when they died no one gave two shits. BP makes you invest in not only Tchalla, bit the supporting cast. There is a reason that people mention kilmonger, Okoye, Nakia, Shuri, and M'Baku. It's because like Tchalla,
you actually like the character and understand them and care about them. I bet you if the next movie or the 3rd had Okoye, Nakia, and M'Baku die after having the same treatment they got in this Movie, people would care ALOT. That's the difference.

For people to look at this and go "there wasn't enough Tchalla, that's fine. He is still the title Character, he will always have the Lions share of feats and screen time. You want good movies? This is how you do it. When people talk about the movie they always mention that EVERYONE was on point. Not just Tchalla and maybe one other person

[XPac]

From the deeper corners of the net, I've seen people saying that Tchalla is the bad guy for stopping the "black' revolution. They imagined that Erik was sending them to all the black revolutionaries around the world.

But that's the thing... plenty of black people would have opposed him. We immediately saw that in Wakanda.

Problem with Killmonger is at the end of the day, he's basically a comic book madman. He's a mad man with a tragic past we can sympathize with and a laundry list of wrongs he justifiably wants to right, but a mad man nonetheless. We've seen how he treats his own allies... he's really no better than the people he wants to burn down.

[Punjabi_Hitman]

This may be what he knows... but the point being he's not wise enough to realize he doesn't know enough. Which is why in the end he would fail. He's intelligent... but he doesn't have the wisdom to apply that intelligence in any sort of beneficial way, hence why he's an idiot.

And yes, to some degree he was ready for a Civil War (though not ready enough since he lost), but the fact that he's doing into a situation where he needs to fight both a global and civil war was his recipe for failure. You can't control the rest of the world when you can't even keep your own house in order.

So you are saying that had T'Challa not shown up he still would have lost the Civil War? To me it seemed like they were winning the war, he was handling the Dora Milage who would have eventually run out of stamina to fight him and relied on Nakia to organize a parlet with the hope that M'Baku would come save their ass. They were still losing until the Jabari came to even out the playing field.

The Dora Milaje would not turn as Okoye even said she has to serve her country no matter who the king is, she is the general. T'Challa showing up gave an excuse for them to turn on him as T'Challa did not yield nor die in the battle for the thrown, hence he was still their king.

[Mike_Murdock]

Isn’t the annual supposed to be out today?

Yep. I thought it was a great read. Here are my specific thoughts:

Back in Black:
I have to admit, I was the least interested in seeing Priest's story, but as soon as it opens with "the story thus far," it warmed my heart. This story is a lot of fun and there's a ton of callbacks to Priest's time on the series (as well as, it seems, efforts to mention the comic book things in the movie, such as Everett K. Ross and Nakia, but possibly to say - look how this is different). Still, for those who love feeling nostalgic about Christopher Priest's run, this was a great story.

Panther's Heart:
This story also feels wonderfully nostalgic for a different era. It's third person narration, purple prose with some unnecessary metaphors, and the title worked into the background just like it was in Panther's Rage. This story takes place in an alternate past. The most noticeable difference right away is the presence of W'Kabi (which also feels like a bit of "this is the guy from the movie in a different role."). Having recently re-read Panther's Rage, W'Kabi's apology hits like a gut punch. It's such a sad moment and shows how strong the character was in that story. This reminds me very much of something like a New Mutants: Forever where Don McGregor is returning as if he had never left and nothing had happened since. This is a somber conclusion to his Black Panther story and I think it worked quite well.

PS - the note at the beginning honoring Rich Buckler and Billy Graham (the penciler, although the timing of this issue's publication might might confuse people) was very sweet.

Back to the Future Part II:
Reginald Hudlin's story was probably my least favorite. It's very talkey without doing much. It's more about explaining what the future is without using that future in any way. I like that they talked about Wakanda using soft power to spread their influence over the world, but it's also clear that genuine wars and conflicts were used. And, based on the ending, it seems the cost was very high. Still, this was a tantalizing hint at what this future could be without any real promise of seeing more. It's some interesting moments that don't feel like they add up to a whole.

Getting Acuna is a definite score. I'm sure he's more than up to the task of delivering the visuals of a galactic empire.

Daniel Acuna is an amazing addition. I'm excited for that. Loved his time on Captain America: Sam Wilson. I'm not sure Black Panther was the best to go with Legacy numbering in the first place, but I hope they do dual numbering since they went to the trouble of adding Legacy numbering. But, since Coates writes consistently 12-issue arcs that basically make up a "season," there's logic to making it a new number one for the new season.

I don't know why anyone would be surprised that he was continuing on the book given all the talk about the Galactic Empire stuff he's been giving for quite awhile as well as the Legacy tease.

[Smoov-E]

Ironically the thing people are complaining about (Tchalla not getting all the screen time) is actually what makes other superhero movies weaker, they take their supporting cast, introduce them Then they go into a Limbo until the climax then They come out to help. That show falcon was introduced.

I'll use another example.

Thor's warrior 3. Introduced in first Thor, and they did very little. They had no development and funny enough, the YouTube channel honest trailer's makes a joke about how in Thor and Thor 2, they change out one of the warrior 3 Characters with a different actor and said " You probably didn't even realize it was a different guy" which is true. They were so inconsequential that I didn't know that the guy was different. Then they are killed in Rag early on. No development, just showed up and were just there essentially, and when they died no one gave two shits. BP makes you invest in not only Tchalla, bit the supporting cast. There is a reason that people mention kilmonger, Okoye, Nakia, Shuri, and M'Baku. It's because like Tchalla,
you actually like the character and understand them and care about them. I bet you if the next movie or the 3rd had Okoye, Nakia, and M'Baku die after having the same treatment they got in this Movie, people would care ALOT. That's the difference.

For people to look at this and go "there wasn't enough Tchalla, that's fine. He is still the title Character, he will always have the Lions share of feats and screen time. You want good movies? This is how you do it. When people talk about the movie they always mention that EVERYONE was on point. Not just Tchalla and maybe one other person

Look at all these facts you spittin’ B

[MouserGrey]

This is what makes T'Challa one of the best heroes in the MCU. He learns and implements what he learns from not only his experience as King but the villain himself by the end of it. You could see the clear difference, his father would make everyone bow for him, but T'Challa's facial expressions shows he hates it, he was willing to listen to concerns from his fellow people, but his father would hear none of it from his own brother, Kilmonger was pretty much his father but from the opposite end of the spectrum. The villain isn't just an obstacle the hero has to overcome, because T'Challa is shown throughout the movie that he cares what others have to say, he actually learns a lesson from the villain I don't recall another movie that did that hence why to me Kilmonger is one of the best villains in movies in general.

Throughout the movie you can feel the burden and weight in T'Challa's shoulders and him struggling to handle himself as a king. His inner struggle with wanting to please his father and keep the old ways but struggling to want to please his people as well.

It was subtle throughout the movie, but T'Challa to me out acted everybody, it's just because everyone else steals your attention, when T'Challa is on screen no one actually pays attention to Chadwick hence people say someone else stole the scene.

Well said. I will also point out again that T'Challa could have killed Erik, but offered a yield instead. It happened so fast. It should have been edited a little differently. And Erik was smart, but short sighted. Thousands of sonic spears? Please. There are millions and millions of guns. And does Wakanda have an infrastructure to keep producing weapons of war? Realistically he would never have had a handle on all the details of waging a way on the test of the world. And even if he did, how to convey all these tactics and strategies to officers in the field. The war dogs are spies, yes, but have they been trained and tried like Erik? I would say no. Initially the attack would have surprise on its side, but I believe it would have run out of steam pretty quick.

[XPac]

So you are saying that had T'Challa not shown up he would have lost the Civil War? To me it seemed like they were winning the war, he was handling the Dora Milage who would have eventually run out of stamina to fight him and relied on Nakia to organize a parlet with the hope that M'Baku would come save their ass.

The Dora Milaje would not turn as Okoye even said she has to serve her country no matter who the king is, she is the general. T'Challa showing up gave an excuse for them to turn on him as T'Challa did not yield nor die in the battle for the thrown, hence he was still their king.

I'm not necessarily saying he would have lost the civil war. I'm saying the fact that he failed to even get his own house in order demonstrates why this person won't be running the world anytime soon. He can kill a lot of people sure... but real power doesn't come from big guns. It doesn't work that way. That's the difference between him and T'Challa.

[Mike_Murdock]

Yes, he toppled a government... for like a day. Then the Wakandans, recognizing he was frankly a madman, rose up against him and over threw him. Yes, T'Challa surviving allowed the revolting Wakandans to actually succeed... but the point being they wanted to rise against him even prior to knowing T'Challa was alive.

But they didn't rise up against him before T'Challa came back. What's more, once it became clear that he didn't have a clear legal position to rule, he still had the support of a large section of Wakanda's security forces. That doesn't show a position of weakness, it shows that, had T'Challa died when thrown off a waterfall, he would have met only limited resistance overall.

[MouserGrey]

Killmonger's failure highlights T'Challa's greatness. He snuffed that before the world could fall to chaos and stiil showed benevolence

GOAT superhero. A-list

(Whatever that means)

Yup, yup, yup. The greater the adversary, the greater the victory.

[XPac]

But they didn't rise up against him before T'Challa came back. What's more, once it became clear that he didn't have a clear legal position to rule, he still had the support of a large section of Wakanda's security forces. That doesn't show a position of weakness, it shows that, had T'Challa died when thrown off a waterfall, he would have met only limited resistance overall.

But there were Wakandans who were planning to overthrow Killmonger even without T'CHalla. T'Challa family and the Jabari clearly weren't on the same page as him. And though the Doras were going along with him, they weren't exactly happy about it. I don't dispute that he may have only had limited resistance at that point. But he had limited resistance in a situation where they haven't even really done anything yet. Drag your nation the size of Jersey into a war with the rest of the planet, and I'll wager overtime more and more people might find the idea of a coup pretty reasonable.

[Punjabi_Hitman]

I'm not necessarily saying he would have lost the civil war. I'm saying the fact that he failed to even get his own house in order demonstrates why this person won't be running the world anytime soon. He can kill a lot of people sure... but real power doesn't come from big guns. It doesn't work that way. That's the difference between him and T'Challa.

Hence why T'Challa learns through him. From the beginning he is reluctant to be King as he doesn't fully believe yet that Wakanda should remain with old traditions. Hence why he tell T'Chaka he isn't ready to be king, not because he doesn't know how to be king, but he is not at the point where he can rule it the same way his father and fore fathers ruled. He says he isn't ready to be without his father as he hasn't fully embraced his way of ruling.

Enter Kilmonger who is the result of his father's way of ruling. T'Challa sees his father in Kilmonger only on the other end of the spectrum. They both have closed minded ways on their view of the world. Hence why he stands up to his father the second time and figures out exactly why he must be King.

People who complain about this movie are complaing that it's just another Marvel movie but with weakest CGI and fight scenes and it's boring. The main actor sucked everyone stole the shot but I couldn't get behind T'Challa.

The undertones, the messages, the character development of all the characters in this movie are going over their heads. This is the most well developed MCU movie to date. I don't think we will get this deep of a film in the MCU again unless Coogler returns for the sequel.

Unfortunately this is the world today. Extreme views whether on the left or the right wanting extreme measures instantaneously, with the center getting drowned out in the fighting or attacked from both sides for taking a more nuanced and thoughtful approach to finding solutions.

T'Challa represents the Centre and because it's not an instant gratification approach, he is being attacked for being weak. When he has had the strongest growth in the film.