Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[Cville]

But even when they're dragged through the mud, they're still badasses. Unworthy Thor was a good example of deconstruction. But Thor was still a baller.

[Amenra11]

I think it's a little bit of both. Yes, heroes are male fantasies. But especially at marvel, they're also flawed characters with feet of clay.

Thor right now is a perfect example of all of the above. In marvel he may well be the ULTIMATE male fantasy. He's literally a god prince. But presently he's also missing his hammer, missing his arm, and even missing his name. This is the ultimate male fantasy hero with 3 movies and hundreds of issues of books spanning decades and he's spent over a year being depowered, disfigured, and displaced from his own book.

So yes, marvel characters will be strong masculine characters. But they're also going to be dragged through the mud and screwed over every possible way imaginable. There are days you dream about being these characters... and there are day so thank god you're not. You get the best and the worst of both worlds.

I never said they couldnt be flawed.

If superman is the blueprint than every super hero should have a kryptonite, but I digress.

Thor is still fighting the same villains and winning despite losing all those things.

I guarantee Thor will figure out how to earn his Hammer and his arm back for himself; it won’t be gifted to him by Lady Sif, Jane Foster or Valkyrie while he is made to look incompetent or helpless and they get the best feats.

[Amenra11]

Wait a minute, when did an overabundance of black male masculinity happen in order to get tired of it? I missed it, what period was that? We're not talking the Luke Cage "Where's my money honey?" era are we?

Seriously, when did it happen? I'd love to read it. Definitely didn't happen on DC's end, hard pressed to think of when it happened at Marvel either...

Expect nothing but Crickets

[Cville]

Honestly, I still think in a lot of ways the version of Wakanda we got in Priests run was more messed up than the version we're getting right now.

Ramonda fearing that Wakanda would go to war over a Dora dating seems a lot more screwed up than what we're getting right now honestly.

But if you have a super hero king, you're going to have a messed up government for that super hero king to try and fix. It's the logical story to tell for that sort of character.

So a govt that fears and tries to prevent wars is more screwed up than one that knowingly allows a chieftain to kidnap and rape women. Treats women who were once in a respected positions as little more than royal whores. And whose former regent says that its okay for women to be raped so long as the golden city doesn't fall.

And the point of what Ramonda was saying was that the village of the dishonored tribe would be ignored by other villages. And that dishornred village "may" start a war. By your Orginators logic the other tribes have a right to defend themselves.

[Ezyo1000]

The story gave the Originals a VERY understandable and almost sympathetic motive... they simply want to go home. Doesn't justify their actions necessarily... but it gives their motives, and the story overall a degree of depth. It means the story goes beyond simply punching out a monster. It may still come to that, but it becomes a more complicated matter. And again, that's the story you want from a super hero king. It's not a Hulk story where something needs to be punched and you call it a day... there are social, historical, and perhaps even political implications in addition to that.

Now, if you don't like them then you don't like them... but the point being that the notion of them being driven off their homeland creates layers for them. The same way Killmonger got layers by having T'Chaka and Wakanda screw him over. Yes, it arguably puts them in a negative light but that makes for a better story. It's a shades of grey sort of thing, as opposed to things being purely black and white.

Or how about instead go with the original story, where has bast gone in their time of need. The story was more interesting when it was about gods gone missing and other gods are trying to fill the void rather then Wakanda screwed someone else over (because apparently, despite continuity saying otherwise, women weren't treated equally then men) in some Colombus colonizing. And for kilmonger, the movie version was screwed over by T'Chaka and his father because of what they did. Wakanda as a whole knew nothing of it. It's not like he was shunned by them. It would of been different if they were in Wakanda and then they drove child Erik to the US to fend for himself

[Jabare]

Yes and yes. They are dating, and AvX is still canon.

And for what it's worth, I think the relationship has been handled pretty well so far.

I know she's shown up to help with the new and the monsters from the old gods....but I didn't realize they were dating. I can't imagine this ending well, but it is what it is

They are dating. Coates said in a response to a write in question there are no plans to remarry them. Essentially wasting our time to build up a Storm Solo.

kind of surprised Marvel hasn't givenStorm a solo but given the state of the X-men I'm not really surprised

[XPac]

So a govt that fears and tries to prevent wars is more screwed up than one that knowingly allows a chieftain to kidnap and rape women. Treats women who were once in a respected positions as little more than royal whores. And whose former regent says that its okay for women to be raped so long as the golden city doesn't fall.

And the point of what Ramonda was saying was that the village of the dishonored tribe would be ignored by other villages. And that dishornred village "may" start a war. By your Orginators logic the other tribes have a right to defend themselves.

Yes, a government that will go to war over a teenage girl dating is more messed up than that what we saw with Coates. IMO of course. The first issue stated that the Chieftans actions were known, but not necessarily by the government. There are bad areas in the city I live in where bad stuff is known to happen, but I'm pretty darn sure Obama and Trump were ignorant of what was happening. Street crime doesn't necessarily go that high up on the ladder.

And by my Originator logic, other tribes have a right to defend themselves if they are attacked. It's basic self defense... which doesn't quite fall in line with what was happening in Priests run.

[XPac]

I know she's shown up to help with the new and the monsters from the old gods....but I didn't realize they were dating. I can't imagine this ending well, but it is what it is



kind of surprised Marvel hasn't givenStorm a solo but given the state of the X-men I'm not really surprised

Even if Storm and T'CHalla's current relationship ends up not working out this time around (and that's always a possibility), it almost certainly (IMO at least) will end better than it did in AvX. So to me at least, what Coates is doing is worth it even if it doesn't last. Whatever we get here will almost surely be better than what get got prior to Coates.

[Cville]

Yes, a government that will go to war over a teenage girl dating is more messed up than that what we saw with Coates. IMO of course. The first issue stated that the Chieftans actions were known, but not necessarily by the government. There are bad areas in the city I live in where bad stuff is known to happen, but I'm pretty darn sure Obama and Trump were ignorant of what was happening. Street crime doesn't necessarily go that high up on the ladder.

And by my Originator logic, other tribes have a right to defend themselves if they are attacked. It's basic self defense... which doesn't quite fall in line with what was happening in Priests run.

But the govt is not going to war. The dishonored village would start attacking people. Tchalla stated he could easy stop them with the military tech, but you know, he would prefer it not come to that.

[Pulp Fiction]

Even if Storm and T'CHalla's current relationship ends up not working out this time around (and that's always a possibility), it almost certainly (IMO at least) will end better than it did in AvX. So to me at least, what Coates is doing is worth it even if it doesn't last. Whatever we get here will almost surely be better than what get got prior to Coates.

If any repairing of the pairing is to be acknowledged then significant progress needs to be made outside of a BP book. Otherwise its all for naught.

[XPac]

But the govt is not going to war. The dishonored village would start attacking people. Tchalla stated he could easy stop them with the military tech, but you know, he would prefer it not come to that.

Yeah, but the fact that they would be willing to go to over it shows how divided and frankly backwards Wakanda was at the time, despite being the most advanced nation on the planet. To me at least, that made them look worse than what we're seeing with now. By far.

And the fact that their solution to the problem was to take teenage girls and turn them into brides in training made the whole thing come off even more ridiculous. Again, to me.

To me, what we saw in Coates run was merely government handling street crime poorly. That's less of an issue because really that's normal as far as I'm concerned. Street crime happens. Law enforcement does their best but stuff still happens. We all know that's how it is, and that probably never will change. I have less issue with that, because it's something I can theoretically see on the evening news on any given day. I pretty much expect it to be honest. Idaho possibly going to war with Nebraska over a teenage girl dating is NOT something I'd expect... hence it coming off looking a lot worse in my eyes at least.

[XPac]

If any repairing of the pairing is to be acknowledged then significant progress needs to be made outside of a BP book. Otherwise its all for naught.

It'd be nice if the relationship shows up outside of the BP book, and I hope it does.

But at the same time, if it doesn't I honestly don't think it's a big deal either. It's like Cat Woman showing up in Justice League now that she's shacking up with Bruce. If it happens, fine... if it doesn't I'm not sure it really matters.

[Cville]

Yeah, but the fact that they would be willing to go to over it shows how divided and frankly backwards Wakanda was at the time, despite being the most advanced nation on the planet. To me at least, that made them look worse than what we're seeing with now. By far.

And the fact that their solution to the problem was to take teenage girls and turn them into brides in training made the whole thing come off even more ridiculous. Again, to me.

To me, what we saw in Coates run was merely government handling street crime poorly. That's less of an issue because really that's normal as far as I'm concerned. Street crime happens. Law enforcement does their best but stuff still happens. We all know that's how it is, and that probably never will change. I have less issue with that, because it's something I can theoretically see on the evening news on any given day. I pretty much expect it to be honest. Idaho possibly going to war with Nebraska over a teenage girl dating is NOT something I'd expect... hence it coming off looking a lot worse in my eyes at least.

But a family might go to war with another family over the dishonour among their children. The police just stop it before it gets out of hand. Nakias and Okoyos villages are only a handful of farmers. The Capulets and Montagues might be a good example.

[XPac]

But a family might go to war with another family over the dishonour among their children. The police just stop it before it gets out of hand. Nakias and Okoyos villages are only a handful of farmers. The Capulets and Montagues might be a good example.

Romeo and Juliet took place in what.... the 1300's? This sort of behavior might be expected centuries ago, but us to see it in Wakanda in modern times IMO made it look backwards. This is supposed to be the most advanced nation in the world, which credits itself for having advanced spirituality in comparison to the western world. But there's an underlying primitiveness to it. And I frankly assume that's the point of adding those elements... nonetheless to me that made Wakanda look worse.

For the record I'm not knocking that Priest put it in the story (though some elements perhaps could have been neutered a bit)... just saying that it made Wakanda look bad for the sake of telling it. The moral of the story being that this sort of thing has happened before, and will likely continue to happen. Wakanda will sometimes be made to look bad for the sake of telling a story. That sort of comes with the territory of having a super hero king.

[Cville]

Romeo and Juliet took place in what.... the 1300's? This sort of behavior might be expected centuries ago, but us to see it in Wakanda in modern times IMO made it look backwards. This is supposed to be the most advanced nation in the world, which credits itself for having advanced spirituality in comparison to the western world. But there's an underlying primitiveness to it. And I frankly assume that's the point of adding those elements... nonetheless to me that made Wakanda look worse.

For the record I'm not knocking that Priest put it in the story (though some elements perhaps could have been neutered a bit)... just saying that it made Wakanda look bad for the sake of telling it. The moral of the story being that this sort of thing has happened before, and will likely continue to happen. Wakanda will sometimes be made to look bad for the sake of telling a story. That sort of comes with the territory of having a super hero king.

All advanced countries have areas that you would think haven't moved forward in time. Lol. The Dora's villiagers still live in traditional huts.