Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[Ezyo1000]

T'Challa had a choice with the challenge, be a good man or be a king.

If he acted solely as king, he could have denied the challenge for any number of legit reasons. He could have revealed his uncle a traitor in the worst terrorist attack in Wakandian history. He could have revealed Killmonger's association with Klaw. He could have said 'Sure, challenge in a few days' and then Russian Dossiered his @$$.

T'Challa, as a good man though, was sympathetic to Killmonger. He allowed him the birthright he didn't deserve, and sought to reach him as they fought.

As for impeaching a guy in a vibranum suit, well, that don't make him the Hulk Wouldn't be easy, but Shuri developed the tech to easily transport it, so there are options

It wasn't that simple. Reveling what happened with Njobu would of opened up another issue. Because at that point T'Chaka Tchalla and Zuri knew what happened, and the council would question the validity of "Njobu was a traitor who worked with Klaw, however king T'Chaka issued Justice to him but no one else knows what happened except for Zuri band he omitted that true with a lie that he simply disappeared" that would be hard to pass off, especially when trying to decline Erik's bloodright (Njobus betrayal wouldn't mean anything to Erik in that sense) while he also brought Klaw. It would of been a whole cluster of a mess. And denying the challenge would of out Tchalla at odds with the tribes. He really didn't have a choice. And if he agreed to the challenge and then turned around and had Erik killed?? Yeah he would of out a target on himself and the Royal family because that would of been sketchy as hell

[ed2962]

I can understand the genius thing.

I can understand wanting priest prepper.

I cant wrap my head around the "not enough feats" and "soft" comments. I

Some folks wanted T'Challa to be John Wick. We got a completely different movie than that so they want to say BP was "soft" or that the women stole the show etc.

[The Cool Thatguy]

It wasn't that simple. Reveling what happened with Njobu would of opened up another issue. Because at that point T'Chaka Tchalla and Zuri knew what happened, and the council would question the validity of "Njobu was a traitor who worked with Klaw, however king T'Chaka issued Justice to him but no one else knows what happened except for Zuri band he omitted that true with a lie that he simply disappeared" that would be hard to pass off, especially when trying to decline Erik's bloodright (Njobus betrayal wouldn't mean anything to Erik in that sense) while he also brought Klaw. It would of been a whole cluster of a mess. And denying the challenge would of out Tchalla at odds with the tribes. He really didn't have a choice. And if he agreed to the challenge and then turned around and had Erik killed?? Yeah he would of out a target on himself and the Royal family because that would of been sketchy as hell

All things considered, it could have been that simple.

Eric might be royal blood, but his background was 100% American. There were any number of ways he could have torpedoed Eric, if he really wanted to, and that's what he should have done.

[Hypestyle]

I want to see a new Jackal character invented for the Black Panther, with African origins. That would be a good fit.

[robreedwrites]

All things considered, it could have been that simple.

Eric might be royal blood, but his background was 100% American. There were any number of ways he could have torpedoed Eric, if he really wanted to, and that's what he should have done.

He thought he could torpedo Erik in the challenge. He was wrong.

[Ezyo1000]

All things considered, it could have been that simple.

Eric might be royal blood, but his background was 100% American. There were any number of ways he could have torpedoed Eric, if he really wanted to, and that's what he should have done.

That doesn't matter, he is still Wakandan, of he killed him simply because he wasn't born in Wakanda but was still of the Royal bloodline, all because (as it would appear) Tchalla didn't want to honor the right to challenge. The problem was though T'Challa could decline, he hadn't been King long enough to have that decision not have huge ramifications. Especially since he had challenge day 2 days prior and was getting his feet wet

[N'Jadaka]

Good. Wakanda is Wakanda and should stay Wakanda. Not be a fantasy of black people everywhere.

So I'm guessing you were irritated by the ending as well? I think Wakanda should stay isolationist as well.

Keep those colonizers out.

And the plan instituted by N'Jobu and N'Jadaka would have never worked, not only because he's shipping weapons and not armor, but because black folks ain't a monolith. Not everyone's going to be down with tearing down their nations and homes for Wakanda. And from his behavior, I don't think N'Jadaka ever really believed in the plan. I mean, which step of black liberation/revolution is it where you choke an older black woman trying to ensure a legacy?



"

where do I say all black folks are the same? Not once. How do you guys know what oppressed people across the globe might hypothetically feel about Killmonger's insurrection, anyway? You seem so assured.

when I say the allegory of Pan-African revolt dies with Killmonger, I mean the feeling and energy of utter blackness that emitted throughout the movie dissapates, because no one other than Killmonger can replicate that energy. This movie was just subtext on subtext on subtext, and Killmonger's role played into that.

Coogler was able to conflate realness with MCU popcorn fantasy. Often superheroes exist in a colorblind world, as if the agony of real world oppressions are an imaginary blip in a setting often bewildered by super powers and alien invasions and NYC getting destroyed every week. Black superheroes (even T'challa unless he's written by Hudlin) never mention their blackness in adjacent to their white counterparts... A lot of concrete reality is almost invisible in the superhero genre. Usually because superheros and comic books are often so much about grandstanding ideals and symbolisms using characters that are basically vessels for these same certain ideas.


Maybe the best next thing we can get is a Nighthawk movie.

[XPac]

Some folks wanted T'Challa to be John Wick. We got a completely different movie than that so they want to say BP was "soft" or that the women stole the show etc.

I think T'Challa really is as "hard" as you're gonna get for a pg 13 Disney movie.

[Bunai]

This conversation is just strange to me. My going to the theater was to see and root for T'Challa; and that is what I did and got that.
He had a whole arc and was presented as an open character who protects his people. I had doubts about Chadwick but he proved me wrong and I am glad for that.

As for Michael B. Jordan... I like Killmonger as a character (comic) but I can't seem to like the actor. We are told his actions and history but we don't really see it. Which is why he should have survived the film, that I will agree with.


Lovin the movie based fanart, tho.

[MindofShadow]

I think T'Challa really is as "hard" as you're gonna get for a pg 13 Disney movie.

Yeah, ending with a close up shot of a spear in the bad guys gut will do that lol

[blacksonic]

So I'm guessing you were irritated by the ending as well? I think Wakanda should stay isolationist as well.

Keep those colonizers out.









where do I say all black folks are the same? Not once. How do you guys know what oppressed people across the globe might hypothetically feel about Killmonger's insurrection, anyway? You seem so assured.

when I say the allegory of Pan-African revolt dies with Killmonger, I mean the feeling and energy of utter blackness that emitted throughout the movie dissapates, because no one other than Killmonger can replicate that energy. This movie was just subtext on subtext on subtext, and Killmonger's role played into that.

Coogler was able to conflate realness with MCU popcorn fantasy. Often superheroes exist in a colorblind world, as if the agony of real world oppressions are an imaginary blip in a setting often bewildered by super powers and alien invasions and NYC getting destroyed every week. Black superheroes (even T'challa unless he's written by Hudlin) never mention their blackness in adjacent to their white counterparts... A lot of concrete reality is almost invisible in the superhero genre. Usually because superheros and comic books are often so much about grandstanding ideals and symbolisms using characters that are basically vessels for these same certain ideas.


Maybe the best next thing we can get is a Nighthawk movie.

You have to understand most of the people act like there is no colonizers or oppression. They are never going to agree with you. You are right, Black Panther was deeper then the other MCU popcorn films that had zero real world meaning. Black panther was clearly Africans being confused and not helping their people all over the world. Erik can come back if Ryan wants it.

[XPac]

This conversation is just strange to me. My going to the theater was to see and root for T'Challa; and that is what I did and got that.
He had a whole arc and was presented as an open character who protects his people. I had doubts about Chadwick but he proved me wrong and I am glad for that.

As for Michael B. Jordan... I like Killmonger as a character (comic) but I can't seem to like the actor. We are told his actions and history but we don't really see it. Which is why he should have survived the film, that I will agree with.


Lovin the movie based fanart, tho.

I'm fine with Killmonger dying, because he dies in the comics and comes back (and he'll probably come back a second time too). It's a part of the characters story arc to die at least in the source material.

I do think generally speaking too many marvel villains in the MCU are being killed off... but he's an instance I think works because his death does serve the story, and it's easy to justify him returning based on the source material.

[Jabare]

Someone, msybe you idk, said hudlin panther would habe ended killmomger first fight.

They fought under hudlin. He lost or was losing until interrupted. Maaaaybe his next move is planned. Maaaaybe he was just embarrassed he was saved. Its left up to interprentation.

What isnt, is the fact hudlin wrote the fight and tchalla did not win.

The war may have ended but the fight with killmonger was still going. Killmonger never cared about the nigsndans... tchalla knew that.

Yet still let his guard down. If thats not dumb what is it?

I did and I was referring to the movie. In this confrontation the characters and circumstances were different. But if it was Hudlin's T'Challa vs Killmonger the way he movie set it up that T'Challa would have one. Just look at how he is approaching things in Hudlin's first arc and when he's facing off against A list fighters in later arcs like Karnak. BP won the conflict and ultimately the war. I don't have a problem with him showing mercy as he had countermeasures in place. Despite Killmongers petty last attempt BP is still victorious as he knew he would be.



People keep bringing up Doom. The fight everyone is referencing isn't a loss for BP. If you want to bring up a Doom loss under Hudlin, and bring up the one in 2009 with DoomWar where he and the Milaje are ambushed by dozens of Doombots and T'Challa is blasted into a coma. Thats an L. Or you could talk about DoomWar, which Hudlin did not scribe. Thats another L and a generally dumb/craptastic story all around.

[The Cool Thatguy]

That doesn't matter, he is still Wakandan, of he killed him simply because he wasn't born in Wakanda but was still of the Royal bloodline, all because (as it would appear) Tchalla didn't want to honor the right to challenge. The problem was though T'Challa could decline, he hadn't been King long enough to have that decision not have huge ramifications. Especially since he had challenge day 2 days prior and was getting his feet wet

That his father enabled a terrorist attack, the worst and recent history, and the fact that Erik himself worked with Klaw, wouldn't matter?

Erik's Dad was the younger brother, so it's not like T'Chaka would appear to be jumping the line. I'm sure T'Challa would have gotten some blow back for refusing at first, but would be golden once everything was revealed.

[Ezyo1000]

That his father enabled a terrorist attack, the worst and recent history, and the fact that Erik himself worked with Klaw, wouldn't matter?

Erik's Dad was the younger brother, so it's not like T'Chaka would appear to be jumping the line. I'm sure T'Challa would have gotten some blow back for refusing at first, but would be golden once everything was revealed.

What k was saying is that it doesn't matter if Erik was Americanized. He was still Wakandan, and of the Royal bloodline. T'Challa couldn't deny his right simply because he grew up in America. And your forgetting the other issue Tchalla would run into. First, the movie shows that part of the theme is dealing with the sins of ones father. TChalla couldn't deny the bloodright to Erik because of what his father did.

Second, he faces another issue. Say he says "Your father was a traitor who worked with Klaw and many Wakandan lives were lost, therefore I decline your challenge" would look like an excuse since earlier in the movie he says Klaw had evaded their capture for 30 years, they failed to capture Klaw and Erik is showing up with klaws body. That would seem sketchy, especially since him claiming Njobu, who was passed off as simply disappearing, people would wonder how he knew that given his age at the time and question the validity since the only living people who knew would of been Zuri and Tchalla. They would question why the truth was omitted for so long and it would hurt Tchalla because this was obviously a huge bomb dropped.

While yes Njobu was the younger brother so T'Chaka wouldn't appear to be jumping the line, however, it could be seen as him trying to prevent any sort of threat to his title, which also looks bad especially because he again, killed his own brother and omitted the truth about it, but then (seemingly given T'Chakas choice) he killed him because he was a traitor? Why didnt he face the council? Why didn't this get passed onto the council? Who else knows? Zuri? The other wardog the King sent to spy on his brother?? See how fishy it all seems when you break it down?

The reveal regardless actually does the most damage to Tchalla no matter how he tried to spin it, unless he lied in which he would of been no different then his father.