Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[Jabare]

Denying the challenge looks weak, its bad optics and creates potential problems down the road. There are a number of reasons he should have and could have denied the challenge but he chose not too

[Pulp Fiction]

It makes perfect sense.

As I've said/argued, yes he could have refused it.

But T'Challa was to sympathetic to Eric. T'Challa had been much like him when he thought that the Winter Soldier killed his father, and was sympathetic to a child left parent-less (as any non sociopath would be). T'Challa likely thought he could reach his cousin. Empathy, in this instance, was his mistake.

Not the worst flaw for a leader to have...

He was gonna exile him before he talked and did T'Challa think he wouldn't talk. T'Challa knew he was crazy even said so but still risked the throne and wakanda. Nonsense scene.

[Ezyo1000]

You really don't seem to understand my point.

There were any number of ways T'Challa could have, and from a pragmatic point of view, should have denied Eric the right of challenge.

T'Challa only agreed to the challenge because he's a good man, who had too much sympathy for his cousin. I doubt a new comer like Eric knew the traditions, insides and out, better than T'Challa

I understand your point. Tchsis King he could of denied the challenge. He can do whatever he wants because he is King. He can ignore tradition, laws of the land etc because he is King. However, that is not a way to stay king for Long. Your suggestions strip a royal of his rights based on.. his mother not being Wakandan? Ramonda isn't Wakandan in the mu and Shuri is her daughter. She has just as much right as Tchalla does. Your basically saying, in your current posts, that T'Challa Should if used cheap tactics to avoid fighting Erik and that he should of been cold hearted to his family and a fellow Wakandan. After learning the truth and how distraught henwasnin the previous scene, is that really how you wanted him to be? A hypocrite? Your reasons are so simple either. Revealing the truth would have a shit ton of backlash and wouldn't go so smoothly as you believe. Plus it would be way OOC

[BBeeryan]

Nothing wrong with T'Challa stepping up and refusing to accept the challenge the problem only ensued when T'Challa lost and showed hesitation to kill him in what was a fight to the death. Killmonger was not going to yield or relent until his death.

T'Challa was also dealing with the realization that this man is his long lost cousin filled with righteous anger and fury in his heart. In many ways Wakanda's inaction was directly to blame for the death of Killmonger's soul at the hands of white supremacy. But all too often, like I just watched on Dear White People, "society doesn't reward introspection in black men" so T'Challa is thought of as weak for letting his emotions drive him.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I understand your point. Tchsis King he could of denied the challenge. He can do whatever he wants because he is King. He can ignore tradition, laws of the land etc because he is King. However, that is not a way to stay king for Long. Your suggestions strip a royal of his rights based on.. his mother not being Wakandan? Ramonda isn't Wakandan in the mu and Shuri is her daughter. She has just as much right as Tchalla does. Your basically saying, in your current posts, that T'Challa Should if used cheap tactics to avoid fighting Erik and that he should of been cold hearted to his family and a fellow Wakandan. After learning the truth and how distraught henwasnin the previous scene, is that really how you wanted him to be? A hypocrite? Your reasons are so simple either. Revealing the truth would have a shit ton of backlash and wouldn't go so smoothly as you believe. Plus it would be way OOC

There are countless ways T'Challa could have, and should have, Russia Dossiered his ass. I don't imagine people would have rallied around Killmonger long if T'Challa put some effort into a background check.

Denying him wouldn't have much hurt Wakanda traditions, not as much as allowing a special forces soldier trained in destabilizing governments would have.

[Ezyo1000]

There are countless ways T'Challa could have, and should have, Russia Dossiered his ass. I don't imagine people would have rallied around Killmonger long if T'Challa put some effort into a background check.

Denying him wouldn't have much hurt Wakanda traditions, not as much as allowing a special forces soldier trained in destabilizing governments would have.

you say there are countless ways yet the examples you gave wouldnt hold as much weight as you think in T'Challas favor.of It's also about birthright and the truth behind njobus disappearance. Plus these "countless ways" cause people would complain that Coogler made Tchalla scared to fight Erik.

Him declining after the council learned the truth would cause them to question why, and when he told them of Njobus betrayal they would ask how he knew who all knew why is he just now telling them, why it was omitted, why didn't T'Chaka take Erik with him etc etc. Also when was he supposed to do this back round check? He literally saw him that day before, learned who he was hours earlier that day and Erik showed up a few hours after he found out, and Shuri did a background check and found nothing about him.

They didn't know his name or what he even looked like. And yeah denying him would of opened up a shit Storm m you can't seriously pretend it wouldn't, remember what happened when killmonger did it.

[The Cool Thatguy]

you say there are countless ways yet the examples you gave wouldnt hold as much weight as you think in T'Challas favor.of It's also about birthright and the truth behind njobus disappearance. Plus these "countless ways" cause people would complain that Coogler made Tchalla scared to fight Erik.

Dude, you can't say they'd fail anymore than I can say that they'd succeed. It's all conjecture, stop pretending otherwise.

More than that, I'm arguing what the pragmatic solution would have been, not what the T'Challa answer would have been/was.

[MindofShadow]

It makes perfect sense.

As I've said/argued, yes he could have refused it.

But T'Challa was to sympathetic to Eric. T'Challa had been much like him when he thought that the Winter Soldier killed his father, and was sympathetic to a child left parent-less (as any non sociopath would be). T'Challa likely thought he could reach his cousin. Empathy, in this instance, was his mistake.

Not the worst flaw for a leader to have...

Empathy and confidence bordering on arrogance.

Tchallas been the unquestioned best warrior in a nation of warriors for at least 10 years.

It probably never crossed his mind he could lose

[Ezyo1000]

Dude, you can't say they'd fail anymore than I can say that they'd succeed. It's all conjecture, stop pretending otherwise.

More than that, I'm arguing what the pragmatic solution would have been, not what the T'Challa answer would have been/was.

Based on how the movie portrays the event's, it's very likely a smart thing that T'Challa didn't reveal the truth. He was caught off guard and Erik held the advantage, bonus points that T'Challa was distraught learning the truth.

People here are upset about how T'Challa was portrayed currently in a billion dollar hit movie. Think how he would be complained about had he declined? His fault in the whole thing was fighting him so soon after learning about everything.

Had he waited a week or even just a few days (maybe go to the anscestrial realm and confront his father) he would of been more successful and wouldn't of lost. But there are very valid reasons for why it was smart to not have revealed all of that to the council right then and there.

Im not saying he couldn't of made a pragmatic response and denied the challenge. I just don't think it would of been so easily accepted as your leading on. Probably the opposite effect

[SKJoker]

I beg to differ. The arguments Killmonger brought up could've been made by any black person of non-Wakandan descent. I'm sure there are Haitians, Senegalese, and Melanesians that would be pissed Wakanda stood by as their nations burned. As long as Killmonger's dad was a Wakandan prince it didn't really matter what nationality or ethnicity his mom was. But the impact was obviously felt the most if she was African American because it resonates more with Westerners, who are the biggest market.

Half of it gets it's strength from the idea that African Americans don't necessarily know their culture for certain. So they're unified under the idea of "blackness" in a way other black nations necessarily aren't.

People from other nations see "Americans," not "other black people that could have helped us." That's an African American thing.

I am from Trinidad & Tobago in the Caribbean. Black Panther caters to Caribbean folks and other people that may find commonality with the mythos.

See above. And personally, I'm Grenadian-American (both of my parents are Grenadian-born).

Killmonger's whole argument fed into the American idea of blackness. "People who look like us" are suffering.

[Ezyo1000]

On another note. Some time today, Black panther Will Cross and bear out harry Potter and the deathly hallows part two to secure a spot in the top 10 highest grossing movies of all time keeping in there even after Avenger's 4 shows up next year.. final Mile stone. Hit 700 mil domestically

[XPac]

Denying the challenge looks weak, its bad optics and creates potential problems down the road. There are a number of reasons he should have and could have denied the challenge but he chose not too

For the sake of the movie, I think the hero was obviously going to accept because that's what the hero of the movie was obviously going to do.

That said, realistically I think most people would consider refusing the challenge the start thing to do. Whatever the consequences of refusing, it can't be any worse than the potential consequences of Killmonger winning. That was worse case scenario, which is also exactly what happened.

Course it all worked out in the end, so it was fine.

[MindofShadow]

Half of it gets it's strength from the idea that African Americans don't necessarily know their culture for certain. So they're unified under the idea of "blackness" in a way other black nations necessarily aren't.

People from other nations see "Americans," not "other black people that could have helped us." That's an African American thing.



See above. And personally, I'm Grenadian-American (both of my parents are Grenadian-born).

Killmonger's whole argument fed into the American idea of blackness. "People who look like us" are suffering.

Hmmm, that is an interesting point of discussion.

On another note. Some time today, Black panther Will Cross and bear out harry Potter and the deathly hallows part two to secure a spot in the top 10 highest grossing movies of all time keeping in there even after Avenger's 4 shows up next year.. final Mile stone. Hit 700 mil domestically

[Amenra11]

T'Challa was also dealing with the realization that this man is his long lost cousin filled with righteous anger and fury in his heart. In many ways Wakanda's inaction was directly to blame for the death of Killmonger's soul at the hands of white supremacy. But all too often, like I just watched on Dear White People, "society doesn't reward introspection in black men" so T'Challa is thought of as weak for letting his emotions drive him.

Side bar question: which episode?

[BlackClaw]

This was a totally random thought I had, but does anyone think it would be a nice idea if they gave one of the rhinos a name and have them be a member of the pet Avengers? Assuming no writers in the future will give T’Challa a pet of his own.