Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[XPac]

So, devoting a year to a story about how "monarchy is bad" is fine. Which included TONS AND TONS of talking about how monarchy is bad

concluding there needs to be a new govt is fine.

Showing how this new govt functions afterwards and how it changes anything is suddenly cspan material? If the government function is cspan material and unworthy of panel time then changing it is a moot point and there is no reason to devote a year to do it

And I'll need a scan for the word "constitutional monarchy." I looked twice and never saw anything about it in that issue.

It states it's transforms into a constitutional monarchy on the recap page at the very beginning. If you still can't find it, I can scan it tommorow.

And I don't think the idea entirely is that monarchies are bad, because it's still a monarchy. But nonetheless it was worthy of panel time last season because it was the story about a rebellion. Show on reasons why some wanted to rebellion made sense.

[XPac]

Eh, Coates had numerous chances to show the pros and cons of the constitutional kinda sorta council yet instead had Tchalla play his "im the king" trump card every single time.

If anything, it showed why T'challa having absolute authority is the best thing for Wakanda... which is the exact opposite of his previous story.

THe only think the council did was ask T'challa to do something lol

And I think it's entirely fair to show the upside to absolute authority. There are advantages to not giving people a say in government. In the MU at least, it's probably fair to say the world would be better off with super heroes running it.

Problem being T'Challa is 1 fight away from a super villain running it instead. So there's a trade off.

[MindofShadow]

It states it's transom ingredients into a constitutional monarchy on the recap page at the very beginning. If you still can't find it, I can scan it tommorow.
.

ahhh so not on real panel, just another "Coates trying to fix stuff in places it doesn't count because he can't convey his story in the actual pages " lol :P

Problem being T'Challa is 1 fight away from a super villain running it instead. So there's a trade off.

Well, considering how absolutely useless this council is, that hasn't changed one bit.

[XPac]

ahhh so not on real panel, just another "Coates trying to fix stuff in places it doesn't count because he can't convey his story in the actual pages " lol :P



Well, considering how absolutely useless this council is, that hasn't changed one bit.

I think it basically is conveyed on the story. The story mentions they're creating a constitution for a nation with a monarchy. It's essentially telling you its a constitutional monarchy without needing to spell it out. Though thru do spell it out anyways for those that do need it.

And yes ... generally speaking government is useless in comics. At least this way the blame can be partially taken off T'Challas shoulders.

[butterflykyss]

At the end of Ultimates 2, Tchalla is seen holding the tiger god in a pokeball like sphere so it's not as though he doesn't have access to that power. Then problem with s2 is that Coates completely retconned the Wakandan patheon to make it that with faith, people ascend to godhood, yet the nost obvious choice Tchalla, Wakandas king and protector is not chosen and instead given tonab outsider. This is Ultimate fanfic levels of ridiculousness. And it literally throws Wakanda and Tchalla under the bus, in his own book to achieve this and it's cringey

But Storm isnt an outsider and hasnt been one since Hudlin's run. And he wasnt thrown under any bus. He doesnt hsve power to beat a threat like adversary, so he orchestrated and built of team of allies who worked to do so. His plan saved Wakanda, his efforts and ability to have contingencies saved the day.

For this sort of story I think Storm is actually a very obvious choice. Storm has been viewed as a goddess since her very first appearance, and we've seen her referred to as a goddess by Wakandans from time to time. Various stories in the past have somewhat implied that she has a divine nature as well. If any character can be transformed into a god it's Storm. That aspect of her has been implied for decades.

exactly!!!!

Not based on the way Coates set the history. He didn't say Bast and company descended from gods. They were just normal humans who were heroes of their civilization. Based on that, the collective power should have gone to Tchalla and Shuri.

Storm isnt a normal human. She is a potential omega level mutant with latent magic potential. If ororo is representative of what happened in the past the same would be true of them. These were metahumans with some ties to the divine that allowed them to ascend to godhood.

T'Calla was,less effective at the start of the reason because he was dealing with the loss of his sister, and to a lesser degree the loss of his wife. Getting his sister and wife back go a long ways towards fixing that.

And yes, there were some msogynistic people in Wakanda ... the MA killed them. So that was pretty much fixed too.

He moved on from those issues after they resolved. The people who wanted a greater voice in government got it, the DM got their freedom like they wanted, and T'Challa himself got his sister and wife back. Everything was resolved, and they moved on.

and thank you again. people wanted tchalla to come into this book being bad arse but did they forget all the loss he had experienced? this most certainly would affect him in a way that would be challenging in being the best leader he could be.

[MindofShadow]

I think it basically is conveyed on the story. The story mentions they're creating a constitution for a nation with a monarchy. It's essentially telling you its a constitutional monarchy without needing to spell it out. Though thru do spell it out anyways for those that do need it.

And yes ... generally speaking government is useless in comics. At least this way the blame can be partially taken off T'Challas shoulders.

They weren't exactly clear on the details of the whole process and we know nothing specific about the people who were transformed into the gods, but I don't it's just a matter of the person being a hero to the Wakandans. If it were, T'Challa and probably other BPs before him probably would have been transformed into gods long before this.

at least we are brought back full circle so i can't stop lol

Which is, Coates is being vague. "basically conveyed" "not clear on details" is pretty much his MO with his stories.

Nuke the mythos and move on.

Not on panel. Doesn't count. Always the rules of comics.

(and if they are creating the constitution, it means there is no constitutional monarchy. Can't have a constitutional monarchy without a constitution. Just saying)

I'll let you have the last word though.

[XPac]

at least we are brought back full circle so i can't stop lol

Which is, Coates is being vague. "basically conveyed" "not clear on details" is pretty much his MO with his stories. If it's a work in progress anyways, what more needs to be spelled out which actually needs to be spelled out?

Nuke the mythos and move on.

Not on panel. Doesn't count. Always the rules of comics.

(and if they are creating the constitution, it means there is no constitutional monarchy. Can't have a constitutional monarchy without a constitution. Just saying)

I'll let you have the last word though.

The book us stating that it is transforming into a constitutional monarchy, and stating that they are working on a constitution. So we know they are working on it. Beyond that, what do we need to know?

More to the point how many people even really care? The god argument I can buy, but arguing that more panel time needs to be dedicated to explaining the Wakandan constitution (when its done) is a stretch for me.

[butterflykyss]

A long time ago? Only people who buys this story is Coates himself and Storm fans. Lol

you know u buying the books too quit playing lol

If bring a hero is the sole criteria for becoming a god then yeah... in theory this should gave happened long ago. Not just with T'Challa. I just think there has to be more to it than that.

Hell, Steve Rogers should be a sky father if that's how it works. I don't think just anyone can become a god that way. But I guess we'll see ... or maybe we won't. The later would be unfortunate.

I think there is an incorrect assumption that these previous wakandans were just regular humans. if we are to based what happened to them.from what we know occurred with ororo, then we know they couldn't have been just regular humans like tchalla.

[MindofShadow]

people wanted tchalla to come into this book being bad arse but did they forget all the loss he had experienced? this most certainly would affect him in a way that would be challenging in being the best leader he could be.

It is the hard argument to buy when the previous story had him lose his sister, ancestors, whole kingdom, and then the entire multiverse... and he mann'ed up and brought back all of reality.

[MindofShadow]

More to the point how many people even really care? The god argument I can buy, but arguing that more panel time needs to be dedicated to explaining the Wakandan constitution (when its done) is a stretch for me.

Ok, reverse that logic. How many people really care that Wakanda was a monarchy? We had numerous issues of people sitting around spouting philosophical nonsense on how the monarchy sucks in Season 1 and people loved it (including you). Now, suddenly, diving into how this DRASTIC change in how Wakanda functions is now "how many people really care" and "boring."

Pick one.

If you are going to change a core concept of T'challa (being an absolute monarch) and Wakanda... you need to explore how that change actually affects things. Otherwise the story is useless. You can explore that within the confides of an action comic if you choose to. It doesn't have to be boring Coates yackity yack.

In fact, this story had numerous chances to show us what the differences is.

1. T'challa was called to a meeting with this council. He told them to F off, he has better **** to do.

2. T'challa shows up unannounced to a council meeting. Upon a member of the council practically begging him to check into something, he goes "eh, I got better **** to do, tell my mom" and leaves the country.

3. T'challa travels throughout the different regions of Wakanda unannounced and bossing everyone around, including the Doras he just let "have their freedom."

4. Jabari land councilwoman begs Ramonda to tell T'challa to save their leaders. Ramonda says they can't because of the council. T'challa arms them anyway and then shows up with a DAMN META ARMY into Azania all by himself to deal with the treat.

You could easily tell a story where T'challa wants to do something and can't because the council won't let him and he has to decide what to do. This story had numerous chances to show it. Instead, all it proved, by accident, is that Wakanda functions better when the monarch has absolute control in protecting the country and whoever he deems fit to be protected.

[XPac]

It is the hard argument to buy when the previous story had him lose his sister, ancestors, whole kingdom, and then the entire multiverse... and he mann'ed up and brought back all of reality.

He manned up on both occasions and got the job done in the end. But he wasn't quite himself in Hickmans run either, aND made his share of mis takes (as did pretty much every one else).

[XPac]

Ok, reverse that logic. How many people really care that Wakanda was a monarchy? We had numerous issues of people sitting around spouting philosophical nonsense on how the monarchy sucks in Season 1 and people loved it (including you). Now, suddenly, diving into how this DRASTIC change in how Wakanda functions is now "how many people really care" and "boring."

Pick one.

If you are going to change a core concept of T'challa (being an absolute monarch) and Wakanda... you need to explore how that change actually affects things. Otherwise the story is useless. You can explore that within the confides of an action comic if you choose to. It doesn't have to be boring Coates yackity yack.

In fact, this story had numerous chances to show us what the differences is.

1. T'challa was called to a meeting with this council. He told them to F off, he has better **** to do.

2. T'challa shows up unannounced to a council meeting. Upon a member of the council practically begging him to check into something, he goes "eh, I got better **** to do, tell my mom" and leaves the country.

3. T'challa travels throughout the different regions of Wakanda unannounced and bossing everyone around, including the Doras he just let "have their freedom."

4. Jabari land councilwoman begs Ramonda to tell T'challa to save their leaders. Ramonda says they can't because of the council. T'challa arms them anyway and then shows up with a DAMN META ARMY into Azania all by himself to deal with the treat.

You could easily tell a story where T'challa wants to do something and can't because the council won't let him and he has to decide what to do. This story had numerous chances to show it. Instead, all it proved, by accident, is that Wakanda functions better when the monarch has absolute control in protecting the country and whoever he deems fit to be protected.

Plenty of people care that Wakanda is a monarchy. That's probably why it still is one.

It made sense to dive into the issues when it was real vent to the story. On a story about a rebellion, we were told why some wanted to rebell. Like most things in a comic book story it's just framing a context for good guys to beat up bad guys.

But the bad guys were beaten, the rebels were essentially given what they want, and the story moved on. It may move back to those issues later, but in a story about the Adversary I'm not sure it's needed or wanted.

[butterflykyss]

It is the hard argument to buy when the previous story had him lose his sister, ancestors, whole kingdom, and then the entire multiverse... and he mann'ed up and brought back all of reality.

Yea he manned up but he is still human. Losing all of those things would undoubtedly shake the strongest of a person, unless you are heartless. Coates appropriately showed his road to redemption in a way that makes sense, at least to me.

[Cville]

you know u buying the books too quit playing lol


I think there is an incorrect assumption that these previous wakandans were just regular humans. if we are to based what happened to them.from what we know occurred with ororo, then we know they couldn't have been just regular humans like tchalla.

Only Evans. That my BP lol.

I could just as easily assume they used magic. As they others were able to use it to put the originators in their prison. Bast and company may just be the best users.

[Mike_Murdock]

Yeah, weird arc really. Still better than the first one.

I am looking forward to the kiber the cruel arc, because I literally have no recollection of it at all. I think i skimmed it once but usually whne I get this far into Kirby's run, I check out due to extreme boredom.

Well, here's a mostly positive review of the first issue of the story. I think the biggest thing I like is the exploration of the royal family.

Black Panther Vol. 1 #11 - Kiber the Cruel



I'm looking forward to a new story and I'm definitely curious to see a story that will ultimately outlast Jack Kirby. The story starts in an interesting point. T'Challa is on the run from some foes. Given the way he narrates, it seems he's actually in a cycle where the same thing happens over and over. He walks into a trap, he gets forced to the edge, and he gets knocked off and falls to his death. Quite a dramatic opening. Fortunately, it's also all a dream.

T'Challa wakes from the nightmare in the care of Joshua Itobo. He's been having the same nightmare over and over since he was rescued from the rubble of the explosion that killed J'Karra (I didn't end up mentioning it because I didn't think it would be significant). While buried, T'Challa was also exposed to Vibranium. He thinks he has psychic powers now and these dreams are premanitions. Meanwhile, Khanata, the race car driver of the family, is on the road. He muses about how Wakanda is hidden behind a mountain that keeps outsiders out and Wakandans in. He wishes they could end this isolation, but, until they do, they're safe. Then he's immediately kidnapped by the people from T'Challa's dreams. T'Challa apparently does have ESP and is guessing what's on cards while blindfolded. He also senses Khanata is in danger and tries to rush to his aid. Unfortunately, he's too weak to do anything and immediately collapses. He later recovers and begins to look for his family member (cousin? I honestly can't remember).

Khanata is actually acquitting himself well and not at all cowering in fear. Unfortunately, his foe is Kiber who seems to be more or less intangible (it's a little unclear the extent of his powers, that's my best guess. There's an almost Cheshire Cat appearance to him where parts of him keep disappearing). Kiber apparently has some kind of life-draining power that keeps his life going. He's thrown in a pit with others waiting to be fed to Kiber. All of them have given up hope. There's something terrifying and disheartening about the whole thing. He thinks, if they all act, they can win but none will act even though they know they're going to die.

Jack Kirby's time as writer is coming to an end soon (although I'm not sure which issue). I don't think his brand of science fiction is a good fit for this book and I don't like how he's completely ignored what McGregor did. That being said, I'm actually liking things better. He's introduced an interesting set of supporting characters as part of the royal family and each story seems to develop one of them. If he had stayed on, maybe all of that would have gotten some more attention. I also like Kiber so far. He's fantastical, but no more so than Ulysses Klaw.