Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[XPac]

The spear is the same color as the ghost army. It is 100% part of the coates version of the kotd

the soul tracking ability was something T'challa got post incursion. Coates specfically mentioned it. It isn't kotd related.



- The spear is ok but it is just a shitty version of energy daggers. I'm not going to get too excited about it. But, it is ok.

- soul tracking isn't kotd related

- T'challa's kotd powers under hickman was to be able to talk to old panthers and gain their knowledge. In fact, teh first panels we see T'challa in New Avengers #1 is T'challa lecturing one of the smart kids about his great great grandfather (or something) and how he is smiling at him.

The Coates turned around and gave Shuri knowledge of ALL of Wakanda including pre-history that the old panthers didn't know. So, took this power and trumped T'challa's for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

- T'challa was shown the ability to control zombies in Secret Wars.

Then Coates turned around and gave Shuri the ability to RAISE HER OWN ZOMBIES and control them. So, took T'challa's power and actually made it useful for every day use. So, trumped again.

The only "kotd" power Coates has shown to potentially be useulf is the force ghost army... which might actually require Eden, the panels weren't 100% clear.

I don't think the spear is necessarily an exciting part of his arsenal... but I actually think it's a very practical one.

It gives him a weapon against magic as part of his standard toolselt, which is something to a degree he's lacking.

And it also gives him a more non-lethal tool in his box of tricks. Energy daggers can be non-lethal too (or at least the non physical ones), but it's still nice to have a weapon which more PG applications.

Also it's a somewhat more culturally fitting weapon. Ebony blade whch Hudlin introduced was obviously a more European weapon. As far as energy daggers... I'm sure every culture has knives to some degree, but the spear just seems to sort of better fit the theme of the character.

Again, not a particularly exciting addition... but I think it works.

As far as the knowledge of the previous BP goes... really more than anything I think the point of that was for him to be able to communitcate with his ancestors, which of course inevitably sets up the divide he has with them when he can't set off the bomb in Time Runs Out. That was less a power and more a set up. Really they never gave any useful info to him... which in hindsight didn't surprise me that much because frankly I thought T'Challa was smarter than any of the previous BP's anyways. I think he does go to them for a bit of info in Coates run, even threatening them with his spear if he doesn't get their cooperation... but for the most part he already knew more than them anyways.

Shuri isn't one of the 10 smartest people in the world (like she is in the MCU) so her being a Wakandan wiki page gives her a bit something extra. I see your point about Shuris power trumping T'Challa's… but I think Shuri frankly needs it more. T'Challa can still be the go-to person on pretty much anything OTHER than Wakandan history. And he can do it without powers.

[XPac]

Honestly I dislike how Black Panther's world revolves entirely around just having more vibranium (not that shadow physics didn't have anything to do with it). It would just be nice for Wakanda to have a bit more than, "Ayyy... Vibranium!"

Honestly I think that's part of the reason why Maeberry took vibranium away.

But like a lot of BP writers, his ideas and concepts were largely hand waved away when the next guy wanted more of a clean slate. Which is too bad because I do think Maeberry introduced a lot of potentially interesting concepts that never ended up being fully fleshed out.

[MindofShadow]

I don't think the spear is necessarily an exciting part of his arsenal... but I actually think it's a very practical one.

It gives him a weapon against magic as part of his standard toolselt, which is something to a degree he's lacking.

And it also gives him a more non-lethal tool in his box of tricks. Energy daggers can be non-lethal too (or at least the non physical ones), but it's still nice to have a weapon which more PG applications.

Also it's a somewhat more culturally fitting weapon. Ebony blade whch Hudlin introduced was obviously a more European weapon. As far as energy daggers... I'm sure every culture has knives to some degree, but the spear just seems to sort of better fit the theme of the character.

Again, not a particularly exciting addition... but I think it works.

I don't hate it. It just feels unnecessary.

Now, if it proves useful against a character that is magical or uses magic (coughDOOMcough) then I will all aboard the spear train.

As far as the knowledge of the previous BP goes... really more than anything I think the point of that was for him to be able to communitcate with his ancestors, which of course inevitably sets up the divide he has with them when he can't set off the bomb in Time Runs Out. That was less a power and more a set up. Really they never gave any useful info to him... which in hindsight didn't surprise me that much because frankly I thought T'Challa was smarter than any of the previous BP's anyways. I think he does go to them for a bit of info in Coates run, even threatening them with his spear if he doesn't get their cooperation... but for the most part he already knew more than them anyways.

Shuri isn't one of the 10 smartest people in the world (like she is in the MCU) so her being a Wakandan wiki page gives her a bit something extra. I see your point about Shuris power trumping T'Challa's… but I think Shuri frankly needs it more. T'Challa can still be the go-to person on pretty much anything OTHER than Wakandan history. And he can do it without powers.

I get it but I kind of sort of hate this.

If he wanted to make shuri different, he should have just continued on the wizard train. It is a weakness, pointed out severely by Doom, of T'challa's. Making Shuri a full blown mage would give her a niche in Wakanda 100% her own without taking anything away from T'challa at all.

And it isn't about intellect... it is about knowledge. These panthers could have knowledge on things that T'challa simply wouldn't know existed. This story would have been a perfect example... except, once again, it was shuri and mother who had the information.

(And yes, it is more of a set up than power... that is the Hickman way..... Story trumps all)

[XPac]

I don't hate it. It just feels unnecessary.

Now, if it proves useful against a character that is magical or uses magic (coughDOOMcough) then I will all aboard the spear train.



I get it but I kind of sort of hate this.

If he wanted to make shuri different, he should have just continued on the wizard train. It is a weakness, pointed out severely by Doom, of T'challa's. Making Shuri a full blown mage would give her a niche in Wakanda 100% her own without taking anything away from T'challa at all.

And it isn't about intellect... it is about knowledge. These panthers could have knowledge on things that T'challa simply wouldn't know existed. This story would have been a perfect example... except, once again, it was shuri and mother who had the information.

(And yes, it is more of a set up than power... that is the Hickman way..... Story trumps all)

T'CHalla does threaten one of the previous BP ancestors with the spear so I THINK it implies that it'll work on more mystical opponents. His regular gear presumably would be completely ineffective againt a ghost. We'll have to see more of the spear to really know, but that's what I got out of it at least.

But yes... they potential role of being the Wakandan wiki page went from T'Challa to Shuri. Though T'CHalla still used it a little. I think it's fair to say that's a loss... though honestly I wouldn't say it was a particularly big one. Instead of T'Challa offering exposition about Wakandas past to the reader, Shuri does it.

T'CHalla can still communicate with the previous BP's... which in some ways is the more interesting (though less functional) aspect of the ability. Frankly I hope he used it a bit more.

[Skedatz]

Honestly I think that's part of the reason why Maeberry took vibranium away.

But like a lot of BP writers, his ideas and concepts were largely hand waved away when the next guy wanted more of a clean slate. Which is too bad because I do think Maeberry introduced a lot of potentially interesting concepts that never ended up being fully fleshed out.

Thus the cycle turns on. I guess it might cause confusion as well if there's too much going on whenever someone has to bring BP in.

[XPac]

Thus the cycle turns on. I guess it might cause confusion as well if there's too much going on whenever someone has to bring BP in.

It's more than confusing... I think it's potentially hurtful. If the BP writers themselves are pretty much ignoring his gear other writers using the character will do the same, and effectively BP just because an acrobatic martial artists.

THe vibranium suit at least has stuck. But almost everything else seems hit and miss, because BP writers can't seem to standardize his toolset. If every writer after Priest just kept his toolset intact and REGULARLY used his gear, I think the character would be set. But instead we get this endless cycle of adding and subtracting.

[Skedatz]

It's more than confusing... I think it's potentially hurtful. If the BP writers themselves are pretty much ignoring his gear other writers using the character will do the same, and effectively BP just because an acrobatic martial artists.

THe vibranium suit at least has stuck. But almost everything else seems hit and miss, because BP writers can't seem to standardize his toolset. If every writer after Priest just kept his toolset intact and REGULARLY used his gear, I think the character would be set. But instead we get this endless cycle of adding and subtracting.

Are you asking for one writer to continue the continuity of the previous writer?

You, sir, ask too much.

[XPac]

Are you asking for one writer to continue the continuity of the previous writer?

You, sir, ask too much.

Unfortunately that seems to be the case.

I think every BP writer seems interested in re-inventing the wheel, but the end result is the character just spinning his wheels without getting anywhere.

In the least I think the movie will help though. I imagine to some degree because of movie synergy we'll see a lot of the gear used in the movies showing up in the comics.

[Skedatz]

Unfortunately that seems to be the case.

I think every BP writer seems interested in re-inventing the wheel, but the end result is the character just spinning his wheels without getting anywhere.

In the least I think the movie will help though. I imagine to some degree because of movie synergy we'll see a lot of the gear used in the movies showing up in the comics.

I imagine they feel reinventing him a bit will help the character finally catch on, even though it really just creates disparate representation of it all.

[DigiCom]

Unfortunately that seems to be the case.

I think every BP writer seems interested in re-inventing the wheel, but the end result is the character just spinning his wheels without getting anywhere.

In the least I think the movie will help though. I imagine to some degree because of movie synergy we'll see a lot of the gear used in the movies showing up in the comics.

In all fairness, EVERY Big Two hero tends "spin his wheels". The illusion of change is a large part of Big Two comics. Combine that with writers who want to re-tell the stories they loved as a child, and you get a lot of retreads. (Which is why T'Challa has had his "final victory" over Klaw like 6 times. ).

[DigiCom]

I imagine they feel reinventing him a bit will help the character finally catch on, even though it really just creates disparate representation of it all.

The problem is that re-invention often means "ignoring what made the character popular in the first place". The trick is to grow a character organically, not tear everything down and start over.

[XPac]

In all fairness, EVERY Big Two hero tends "spin his wheels". The illusion of change is a large part of Big Two comics. Combine that with writers who want to re-tell the stories they loved as a child, and you get a lot of retreads. (Which is why T'Challa has had his "final victory" over Klaw like 6 times. ).

To some degree that's true.

I would just like a standardized toolset that most writers can agree on. ONce BP writers can get on the same page, I think everyone else can sort of follow suit.

But I see your point. I'm assuming every writer wants to be the next Frank Miller to Daredevil or Claremont to X-Men. THe writer which everyone will identify with. And in part that can involve giving yourself enough of a clean slate to really mark your territory. But if nothing sticks, that just doesn't work.

[DigiCom]

To some degree that's true.

I would just like a standardized toolset that most writers can agree on. ONce BP writers can get on the same page, I think everyone else can sort of follow suit.

But I see your point. I'm assuming every writer wants to be the next Frank Miller to Daredevil or Claremont to X-Men. THe writer which everyone will identify with. And in part that can involve giving yourself enough of a clean slate to really mark your territory. But if nothing sticks, that just doesn't work.

Agreed. DD is probably the worst at Marvel, because EVERYBODY wants to do their Kingpin story.

[dkrook]

It's more than confusing... I think it's potentially hurtful. If the BP writers themselves are pretty much ignoring his gear other writers using the character will do the same, and effectively BP just because an acrobatic martial artists.

THe vibranium suit at least has stuck. But almost everything else seems hit and miss, because BP writers can't seem to standardize his toolset. If every writer after Priest just kept his toolset intact and REGULARLY used his gear, I think the character would be set. But instead we get this endless cycle of adding and subtracting.

200% agreed. This lies at the feet of diminished editorial accountability and i think in small part a lack of respect for the character. Hopefully in the future there will be better attention paid to Panther mythos with future movies building on him.

[dkrook]

It was..

Now milquetoast is the way of the walk.

So right, i remember the endless gifs that just seem to add umph solid ass debates\ battles that took place in here. The edge has been removed conversation and i think that vibe is muted up in here.