Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[XPac]

What villain has real cred other than Magneto, Loki, Skull, Doom, Osborn and Kingpin? No one gives a fart about any other villains.

As long as they show up, be a threat and put on a great show the fans will be quite satisfied.

Who remembers the name of the Skrulls that were killed in SWaD?

What cred do Tetu and Zenzi have?

Who was Achebe before Priest?

This isn't a date, it's a fight, a fight that the villain will lose.

Very few villains have cred ... And that's the problem. Cred needs to be built up. Plain and some villains need to win more. It waters down the stories when the antagonist isn't someone we think can actually win. Doom and Thanos can't be in every story.

[Marvell2100]

Very few villains have cred ... And that's the problem. Cred needs to be built up. Plain and some villains need to win more. It waters down the stories when the antagonist isn't someone we think can actually win. Doom and Thanos can't be in every story.

It's not a problem for a good writer.

Like I said, when were Achebe, Teri and Zenzi built up? During the story arc.

Same can be done for any other villain.

Who heard of Zeke Stane? Nobody, but Fraction made him a serious threat in Iron Man.

[Cville]

Mark Hamil and Stan Lee talk Avengers season 4 Panthers Quest coming this fall.


https://www.cnet.com/news/mark-hamil...ngers-project/

[XPac]

It's not a problem for a good writer.

Like I said, when were Achebe, Teri and Zenzi built up? During the story arc.

Same can be done for any other villain.

Who heard of Zeke Stane? Nobody, but Fraction made him a serious threat in Iron Man.

That is the upside of a debuting villain. They dont8have a long history of losing, so they start off at least neural. It's why it was important to give them a win against Challa before ultimately losing. Because it's potentially all downhill from there unless a writer knows how to protect them.

[Marvell2100]

That is the upside of a debuting villain. They dont8have a long history of losing, so they start off at least neural. It's why it was important to give them a win against Challa before ultimately losing. Because it's potentially all downhill from there unless a writer knows how to protect them.

And how is that different than the Sinister Six idea? They start with small wins before losing in spectacular fashion.

[KOSLOX]

Right now is the perfect time to have T'challa's old villains get a boost.

They can say that they slipped out of his line of sight during the incursion crisis or due to the new government not keeping as tight focus on prior threats that were deemed low level while he was stuck in space.

Maybe they reevaluated their MO and will strike from a better prepared angle, maybe they went to Power Broker and got upgraded, whatever. The point is that T'challa has had several moments lately where he conceivably could have taken his eye off the ball and his villains could have capitalized on the opportunity.

[XPac]

And how is that different than the Sinister Six idea? They start with small wins before losing in spectacular fashion.

Yeah, if they can all individually beat T'Challa before they lose collectively, that will work.

That's the important thing. That they build cred in a situation where they are going to collectively take a hit.

[Marvell2100]

Yeah, if they can all individually beat T'Challa before they lose collectively, that will work.

That's the important thing. That they build cred in a situation where they are going to collectively take a hit.

And beating T'Challa doesn't mean physically as many people like to point out when T'Challa "beats" Doom.

[KOSLOX]

Yeah, if they can all individually beat T'Challa before they lose collectively, that will work.

That's the important thing. That they build cred in a situation where they are going to collectively take a hit.

He doesn't even have to lose. Just have the cost of him winning be significant enough to show that he now views them as a threat.

So maybe T'challa wins but the villain gains some new insight into a potential weakness.

You get three guys that can at least on some level provide a check on T'challa then all of a sudden their threat level is cumulative and the stakes of the story are instantly higher. All you have to do is tell the story where we see that they have the ability to provide that check, rather than having The Crew or Storm always show up and resolve the situation.

The Sinister Six wouldn't be a thing if every time they showed up Spider-Man called up his Amazing Friends or the New Avengers.

That would be boring and only serve to diminish Spider-Man.

[Marvell2100]

Right now is the perfect time to have T'challa's old villains get a boost.

They can say that they slipped out of his line of sight during the incursion crisis or due to the new government not keeping as tight focus on prior threats that were deemed low level while he was stuck in space.

Maybe they reevaluated their MO and will strike from a better prepared angle, maybe they went to Power Broker and got upgraded, whatever. The point is that T'challa has had several moments lately where he conceivably could have taken his eye off the ball and his villains could have capitalized on the opportunity.

Yeah, we've listed the BP rogues that could and should be used but unfortunately languish in limbo.

[Marvell2100]

He doesn't even have to lose. Just have the cost of him winning be significant enough to show that he now views them as a threat.

So maybe T'challa wins but the villain gains some new insight into a potential weakness.

You get three guys that can at least on some level provide a check on T'challa then all of a sudden their threat level is cumulative and the stakes of the story are instantly higher. All you have to do is tell the story where we see that they have the ability to provide that check, rather than having The Crew or Storm always show up and resolve the situation.

The Sinister Six wouldn't be a thing if every time they showed up Spider-Man called up his Amazing Friends or the New Avengers.

That would be boring and only serve to diminish Spider-Man.

That would require creative thinking which is lacking today.

I remember the Avengers Masters of Evil storyline where they overran Avengers' Mansion and took down the team. Zemo had a plan, studied the Avengers routine, made a plan to deal with each one and had enough muscle and fire-power to back it up.

Villains don't have to be idoits, they just have to take their lumps when the time comes.

[MindofShadow]

He doesn't even have to lose. Just have the cost of him winning be significant enough to show that he now views them as a threat.

So maybe T'challa wins but the villain gains some new insight into a potential weakness.

You get three guys that can at least on some level provide a check on T'challa then all of a sudden their threat level is cumulative and the stakes of the story are instantly higher. All you have to do is tell the story where we see that they have the ability to provide that check, rather than having The Crew or Storm always show up and resolve the situation.

The Sinister Six wouldn't be a thing if every time they showed up Spider-Man called up his Amazing Friends or the New Avengers.

That would be boring and only serve to diminish Spider-Man.

That is what grinds my GD gears.

A book called "Black Panther" should be about Black Panther.

"Black Panther" =/= "Wakanda and Friends"


I can accept some Wakanda and friends stuff if the "friends" are used to take on the minor dudes while T'challa goes man to man with the main bad guy.

[Ezyo1000]

Essentially yeah. A character like Tetu needs distance and space. If he's got minions to give him that he can be dangerous.

It's the classic issue of a long ranged fighter vs a shoet ranged one. Whoever controls the distance wins the fight.

Except that wasn't the case. Literally everyone else was down and Tchalla and co stood there while Tetu did his slow ass dance. A better way would be more instant magic with thing's Like a rainstorm, or making a huge ass crater, or growing a giant sentient tree or some isht requiring him to do taichi..

Basically it comes down to this. Every villain that has shown up thus far save QDJ brainwashed, has been weak as hell and only posed a threat due to PIS.. if that's a writers way of making a threat "credible" then they have a serious problem on Their hands. And that is exactly what Coates has done

[Mr MajestiK]

LOL. Right? There are years of posts here where we tried to re-conceptualize/update BP rogues.

Rogues get updated all the time so I see no reason why T'Challa's rogues gallery would remain unchanged.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I never said it's a mistake to buff villains. I think it's a mistake to buff heroes, but not villains.

But right now Killmonger is probably the only rogue who has the cred to make the sinister 6 work.

Why? Achebe would work fine, and would be a great advantage towards making the team effective and making himself dangerous as he's not really a physical threat.