Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[butterflykyss]

Come at me when you gain comprehensive knowledge of T'Challa's abilities through actually reading his pre-Coates back history.

Why so combative? Come at you as it pertains to what? But to humor your request I have read pre-Coates Tchalla, which you should be aware because we have had lengthy discussions in the past as it relates to him and ororo. That said, I've read most of hudlin's run, as well as a few priests story. so now what's your concern?

Which is all the more reason why I find your criticism of of some BP readers negative reactions to Coates quite baffling and hypocritical to be quite Frank.

You have (by your own admission) very little (if any) indepth knowledge of T'challa and his mythos prior to Coates yet, see fit to describe those who do have said relevant knowledge, as being "haters" for stating exactly what it is about Coates approach to writing the titular character and his supposedly "solo" book that they take offence to.

I personally have never stated that I have any personal animosity to the writer concerned so where you're getting this "hating on Coates" vibe from is beyond me.

Any writer who drags the BP mythos into the proverbial gutter is open to being criticised irrespective of race, ethnicity, gender or religious/sexual orientation.

You like what Coates is doing for the primary fact that he writes Storm a damn sight better than is the case in any of the X-books and that's good enough for you.

The fact that this writer has done nothing other than dumb T'challa down and write Wakanda as a Boko Haram inflected nation is of no consequence to you just as long as Coates gets Storm's voice "right" in somebody else's solo book.

Coates himself, admitted to having close to ZERO knowledge of the BP character and attendant mythos and this lack has been made abundantly evident in the BP stories his written to date.

The fact that he writes everyone other than T'challa well shows him up all the more for wilful ignorance and a very clear agenda that's anything but supportive of T'challa and his rich mythos.

Well I think your understanding of what I knew of tchalla is incorrect. I'm a bit shocked that you of all people are trying to limit my knowledge to just Coates when you and I have personally engaged in conversation about Hudlin's work as it pertains to tchalla. Have you forgotten?

That said, what I admitted was that I am more read up on stories that include Storm. This would include much of Hudlin's run when they were married, Doomwar, Hells Kitchen, and a few stories post annulment where storm appeared. Specifically as it related to the advesrary conversation I admitted I had not read priests stories but after some posters here mentioned logos and mephisto I took it upon myself to read this particular stories and what I learned is that some posters here were conveniently leaving out the context as to HOW he won in those instances. People criticize Coates because he built a team of people to help him defeat adversary but if you look at the praise priest received, the truth is he wrote tchalla requiring help to defeat mephisto as well. Logos, though not written by priest, required tchalla needing help there too. So why the double standard? This is why it comes off as hating because what was good for priest isnt good when it applies to coates.

Where did I call out any poster specifically when I agreed with the poster who brought this hating comment up? I stated that it comes off to me as hating when I see people calling him chokes or whatever but I never mentioned you or anyone specifically so why are you taking this so personally? What is the saying, a hit dog will holler?

Not that I have to but becusse I think I need to clear the confusion here, I initially came to liking Coates for what he has done for Ororo as well as what he did in repairing the interaction between ororo and tchalla. However, when I read the entirety of the first coates book I came to like his work based upon his ability to tell stories and weave them together. His stories have depth and meat to them and when I read his works I'm engaged because he puts a lot of effort into them. They also have an element of realism to me. These things i appreciate. So your assumptions about why I like coates are grossly inaccurate.

Coates ignorance about tchalla I think for fans of the character is valid in offering criticism. But let me make it clear what comes off to me as hating, well maybe not hating but hypocritical, is the continued tendency to make Tchalla this unbeatable character even when him winning ignores other characters' mythos. Posters, like yourself, want people to acknowledge all the great things that tchalla has done (which is fine) but in doing so you want to diminish the abilities of other characters. For instance, you are fine with Tchalla being able to put nanites in the sky to strip ororo of her powers even though that never should have worked when you look at how her powers function. Or you argue adversary being put in a metal box can defeat him when if you understand his power you would know that wouldnt work. As long as Tchalla comes out on top despite how it spits in the face of other characters established mythos you are happy because tchalla is a boss. That's the actual hypocrisy here but because I call you out on this, my opinion is not supposed to matter because I'm not a fan enough? Or I'm an unfan or whatever the new terms posters here attempt to shame readers who dont think like they do. Oh stop it. When you have people crediting ororo's eyes to bast there is a lot of ignorance going all around here. The difference is between others posters and myself, which you dont give me credit for, is that I go and do read so that I am empowered as a reader. This is how i was able to intelligently argue the feats as it relates to mephisto and logos. All in all, I guess I will always be a hypocrite to you and others because I'm gonna call bull whenever I see posters lowball other characters or ignore canon when it unfairly favors tchalla. I think tchalla is an awesome character but even with his tech and abilities he is still a man; him needing help at times doesn't diminish him or make him less of an awesome character in my eyes at least.

[XPac]

At the Saturn Awards last night, Black Panther won:

Best Comic to Motion Picture Release (over Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2, Logan, Spider-Man: Homecoming, Thor: Ragnarok, and Wonder Woman)

Best Director (over Guillermo Delgado Toro for The Shape of Water (which is huge, since GDT won the oscar), Patty Jenkins for Wonder Woman, Rian Johnson for The Last Jedi, Jordan Peele for Get Out, Matt Reeves for War for the Planet of the Apes, and Denis Villeneuve for Bladerunner 2049)

Best Supporting Actress - Danai Gurira (over Ana de Armos in Bladerunner 2049, Carrie Fisher in The Last Jedi, Lois Smith in Marjorie Prime, Tessa Thompson in Thor: Ragnarok, Octavia Spencer in The Shape of Water, and Kelly Marie Tran in The Last Jedi)

Best Priduction Design (over Beauty and the Beast, Bladerunner 2049, The Last Jedi, The Shape of Water, and Valerian)

Best Makeup (over Bladerunner 2049, Wonder, Guardians 2, IT, The Last Jedi, and The Shape of Water)

It lost:
Best Writing to The Last Jedi
Best Actor to Mark Hamill in The Last Jedi (Chadwick was nominated)
Best Actress to Gal Gadot in Wonder Woman (Lupita was nominated)
Best Supporting Actor to Patrick Stewart in Logan (Michael B. Jordan was nominated)
Best Performance By a Younger Actor to Tom Holland in Spider-man: Homecoming (Letitia Wright was nominated)
Best Editing to The Last Jedi
Best Music to Coco
Best Costume Design to Beauty and the Beast (this loss is the only one I personally hate, bc I thought BatB's costumes were relatively atrocious)
Best Special Effects to Guardians 2

On the film side, BP came away with the most awards at 5.

Most of those I am fine with, but I'm a little surprised BP lost costume and music. Though they had those categories in the bag.

[robreedwrites]

Most of those I am fine with, but I'm a little surprised they BP costume and music. Though they had those categories in the bag.

Advantage for BP in the major awards is that most go by calendar year for their eligibility period, so Coco and Beauty and the Beast are already done. And, as with all awards, nepotism is a big factor. Jacqueline Duran is a multiple Academy Award winner in costume design and Michael Giacchino is very well-liked.

[Mr MajestiK]

Why so combative? Come at you as it pertains to what? But to humor your request I have read pre-Coates Tchalla, which you should be aware because we have had lengthy discussions in the past as it relates to him and ororo. That said, I've read most of hudlin's run, as well as a few priests story. so now what's your concern?



Well I think your understanding of what I knew of tchalla is incorrect. I'm a bit shocked that you of all people are trying to limit my knowledge to just Coates when you and I have personally engaged in conversation about Hudlin's work as it pertains to tchalla. Have you forgotten?

That said, what I admitted was that I am more read up on stories that include Storm. This would include much of Hudlin's run when they were married, Doomwar, Hells Kitchen, and a few stories post annulment where storm appeared. Specifically as it related to the advesrary conversation I admitted I had not read priests stories but after some posters here mentioned logos and mephisto I took it upon myself to read this particular stories and what I learned is that some posters here were conveniently leaving out the context as to HOW he won in those instances. People criticize Coates because he built a team of people to help him defeat adversary but if you look at the praise priest received, the truth is he wrote tchalla requiring help to defeat mephisto as well. Logos, though not written by priest, required tchalla needing help there too. So why the double standard? This is why it comes off as hating because what was good for priest isnt good when it applies to coates.

Where did I call out any poster specifically when I agreed with the poster who brought this hating comment up? I stated that it comes off to me as hating when I see people calling him chokes or whatever but I never mentioned you or anyone specifically so why are you taking this so personally? What is the saying, a hit dog will holler?

Not that I have to but becusse I think I need to clear the confusion here, I initially came to liking Coates for what he has done for Ororo as well as what he did in repairing the interaction between ororo and tchalla. However, when I read the entirety of the first coates book I came to like his work based upon his ability to tell stories and weave them together. His stories have depth and meat to them and when I read his works I'm engaged because he puts a lot of effort into them. They also have an element of realism to me. These things i appreciate. So your assumptions about why I like coates are grossly inaccurate.

Coates ignorance about tchalla I think for fans of the character is valid in offering criticism. But let me make it clear what comes off to me as hating, well maybe not hating but hypocritical, is the continued tendency to make Tchalla this unbeatable character even when him winning ignores other characters' mythos. Posters, like yourself, want people to acknowledge all the great things that tchalla has done (which is fine) but in doing so you want to diminish the abilities of other characters. For instance, you are fine with Tchalla being able to put nanites in the sky to strip ororo of her powers even though that never should have worked when you look at how her powers function. Or you argue adversary being put in a metal box can defeat him when if you understand his power you would know that wouldnt work. As long as Tchalla comes out on top despite how it spits in the face of other characters established mythos you are happy because tchalla is a boss. That's the actual hypocrisy here but because I call you out on this, my opinion is not supposed to matter because I'm not a fan enough? Or I'm an unfan or whatever the new terms posters here attempt to shame readers who dont think like they do. Oh stop it. When you have people crediting ororo's eyes to bast there is a lot of ignorance going all around here. The difference is between others posters and myself, which you dont give me credit for, is that I go and do read so that I am empowered as a reader. This is how i was able to intelligently argue the feats as it relates to mephisto and logos. All in all, I guess I will always be a hypocrite to you and others because I'm gonna call bull whenever I see posters lowball other characters or ignore canon when it unfairly favors tchalla. I think tchalla is an awesome character but even with his tech and abilities he is still a man; him needing help at times doesn't diminish him or make him less of an awesome character in my eyes at least.

Will respond in more detail when I get home.

[Devaishwarya]

I read a friend's copy of issue two...flitted through the pages, actually. It seemed like one overly long chase scene with no real dialogue except for clueless people asking Who? What? How? and some paint by numbers bad-guy. As for the art...I sill detest Acuna's style, even more so with the muddy "special effects". This was a complete waste of five minutes, really. I'll know better next time.

In more important and relevant news:
I'm actually shocked by the Film losing out in the Best Costuming and Music categories. BatB was beauty-full and well done but it wasn't anything we hadn't seen before in other movies set in a similar era so...not truly new and innovative. Coco's music was jus' a'aight (I was pissed that it won for best original song at the Oscars) ...again, nothing new and interesting that incited "Must Have" emotions.

[butterflykyss]

Will respond in more detail when I get home.

cool beans!

[blacksonic]

Awards shows mean nothing.

[robreedwrites]

Awards shows mean nothing.

Not to some folks, but they absolutely do help with branding and marketability of the people who are nominated and/or win them. Jared Leto would not be in talks to play Morbius in a solo film if he hadn't won that Oscar for Dallas Buyers Club. It would be a huge boost to Ludwig Goransson's career if his score gets nominated for a big award as it gets him more coverage. People in the industry will seek out his score regardless of whether or not they saw the film if it gets nominated.

[MindofShadow]

Not to some folks, but they absolutely do help with branding and marketability of the people who are nominated and/or win them. Jared Leto would not be in talks to play Morbius in a solo film if he hadn't won that Oscar for Dallas Buyers Club. It would be a huge boost to Ludwig Goransson's career if his score gets nominated for a big award as it gets him more coverage. People in the industry will seek out his score regardless of whether or not they saw the film if it gets nominated.

It is doubly important for the makers of Black Panther, considering how many of them behind the scenes were POC, who are under represented in holly

[Cville]

Didn't Coates say in an interview that he was happy people were excited about the movie, but he also wanted people to read his fresh start comic to get more realism? If I'm remembering that correctly, I find it funny based on how Star Warsian the comic is, combined with movie elements. lol

[Ezyo1000]

Why so combative? Come at you as it pertains to what? But to humor your request I have read pre-Coates Tchalla, which you should be aware because we have had lengthy discussions in the past as it relates to him and ororo. That said, I've read most of hudlin's run, as well as a few priests story. so now what's your concern?



Well I think your understanding of what I knew of tchalla is incorrect. I'm a bit shocked that you of all people are trying to limit my knowledge to just Coates when you and I have personally engaged in conversation about Hudlin's work as it pertains to tchalla. Have you forgotten?

That said, what I admitted was that I am more read up on stories that include Storm. This would include much of Hudlin's run when they were married, Doomwar, Hells Kitchen, and a few stories post annulment where storm appeared. Specifically as it related to the advesrary conversation I admitted I had not read priests stories but after some posters here mentioned logos and mephisto I took it upon myself to read this particular stories and what I learned is that some posters here were conveniently leaving out the context as to HOW he won in those instances. People criticize Coates because he built a team of people to help him defeat adversary but if you look at the praise priest received, the truth is he wrote tchalla requiring help to defeat mephisto as well. Logos, though not written by priest, required tchalla needing help there too. So why the double standard? This is why it comes off as hating because what was good for priest isnt good when it applies to coates.

Where did I call out any poster specifically when I agreed with the poster who brought this hating comment up? I stated that it comes off to me as hating when I see people calling him chokes or whatever but I never mentioned you or anyone specifically so why are you taking this so personally? What is the saying, a hit dog will holler?

Not that I have to but becusse I think I need to clear the confusion here, I initially came to liking Coates for what he has done for Ororo as well as what he did in repairing the interaction between ororo and tchalla. However, when I read the entirety of the first coates book I came to like his work based upon his ability to tell stories and weave them together. His stories have depth and meat to them and when I read his works I'm engaged because he puts a lot of effort into them. They also have an element of realism to me. These things i appreciate. So your assumptions about why I like coates are grossly inaccurate.

Coates ignorance about tchalla I think for fans of the character is valid in offering criticism. But let me make it clear what comes off to me as hating, well maybe not hating but hypocritical, is the continued tendency to make Tchalla this unbeatable character even when him winning ignores other characters' mythos. Posters, like yourself, want people to acknowledge all the great things that tchalla has done (which is fine) but in doing so you want to diminish the abilities of other characters. For instance, you are fine with Tchalla being able to put nanites in the sky to strip ororo of her powers even though that never should have worked when you look at how her powers function. Or you argue adversary being put in a metal box can defeat him when if you understand his power you would know that wouldnt work. As long as Tchalla comes out on top despite how it spits in the face of other characters established mythos you are happy because tchalla is a boss. That's the actual hypocrisy here but because I call you out on this, my opinion is not supposed to matter because I'm not a fan enough? Or I'm an unfan or whatever the new terms posters here attempt to shame readers who dont think like they do. Oh stop it. When you have people crediting ororo's eyes to bast there is a lot of ignorance going all around here. The difference is between others posters and myself, which you dont give me credit for, is that I go and do read so that I am empowered as a reader. This is how i was able to intelligently argue the feats as it relates to mephisto and logos. All in all, I guess I will always be a hypocrite to you and others because I'm gonna call bull whenever I see posters lowball other characters or ignore canon when it unfairly favors tchalla. I think tchalla is an awesome character but even with his tech and abilities he is still a man; him needing help at times doesn't diminish him or make him less of an awesome character in my eyes at least.

Just going to say this. No one ever said Tchalla beat Mephisto or logos without any help. It was the fact that he did the heavy lifting, and actually outsmarted Mephisto, yes his random redshirts disrupted his frequency but T'Challa did the knock out blow, tricked him into taking his soul and being overwhelmed by the bps whole simultaneously taking away Achebes power. As for Logos Tchalla defeated the tiger god and took his power. At no point did anyone say he did it all without any help.

The Issue with Storm is that she got the big feat and it's not her book to take the big feats

[MindofShadow]

Just going to say this. No one ever said Tchalla beat Mephisto or logos without any help. It was the fact that he did the heavy lifting, and actually outsmarted Mephisto, yes his random redshirts disrupted his frequency but T'Challa did the knock out blow, tricked him into taking his soul and being overwhelmed by the bps whole simultaneously taking away Achebes power. As for Logos Tchalla defeated the tiger god and took his power. At no point did anyone say he did it all without any help.

The Issue with Storm is that she got the big feat and it's not her book to take the big feats

If people cannot tell the difference story telling wise of the Mephisto, Logos, and Coates S2 stories, then, what can you do lol? If people are goign to be willingly obtuse about it, then what is the point?

It isn't "A beat B, A beat C, so A can't beat D!" It is about reading the dang story! The narrative of the story. How the characters are acting within the story. You can't even read just there fight, you need to read The Client all the way through.

Reading images isn't the same thing as reading the damn story.

[MouserGrey]

Why so combative? Come at you as it pertains to what? But to humor your request I have read pre-Coates Tchalla, which you should be aware because we have had lengthy discussions in the past as it relates to him and ororo. That said, I've read most of hudlin's run, as well as a few priests story. so now what's your concern?



Well I think your understanding of what I knew of tchalla is incorrect. I'm a bit shocked that you of all people are trying to limit my knowledge to just Coates when you and I have personally engaged in conversation about Hudlin's work as it pertains to tchalla. Have you forgotten?

That said, what I admitted was that I am more read up on stories that include Storm. This would include much of Hudlin's run when they were married, Doomwar, Hells Kitchen, and a few stories post annulment where storm appeared. Specifically as it related to the advesrary conversation I admitted I had not read priests stories but after some posters here mentioned logos and mephisto I took it upon myself to read this particular stories and what I learned is that some posters here were conveniently leaving out the context as to HOW he won in those instances. People criticize Coates because he built a team of people to help him defeat adversary but if you look at the praise priest received, the truth is he wrote tchalla requiring help to defeat mephisto as well. Logos, though not written by priest, required tchalla needing help there too. So why the double standard? This is why it comes off as hating because what was good for priest isnt good when it applies to coates.

Where did I call out any poster specifically when I agreed with the poster who brought this hating comment up? I stated that it comes off to me as hating when I see people calling him chokes or whatever but I never mentioned you or anyone specifically so why are you taking this so personally? What is the saying, a hit dog will holler?

Not that I have to but becusse I think I need to clear the confusion here, I initially came to liking Coates for what he has done for Ororo as well as what he did in repairing the interaction between ororo and tchalla. However, when I read the entirety of the first coates book I came to like his work based upon his ability to tell stories and weave them together. His stories have depth and meat to them and when I read his works I'm engaged because he puts a lot of effort into them. They also have an element of realism to me. These things i appreciate. So your assumptions about why I like coates are grossly inaccurate.

Coates ignorance about tchalla I think for fans of the character is valid in offering criticism. But let me make it clear what comes off to me as hating, well maybe not hating but hypocritical, is the continued tendency to make Tchalla this unbeatable character even when him winning ignores other characters' mythos. Posters, like yourself, want people to acknowledge all the great things that tchalla has done (which is fine) but in doing so you want to diminish the abilities of other characters. For instance, you are fine with Tchalla being able to put nanites in the sky to strip ororo of her powers even though that never should have worked when you look at how her powers function. Or you argue adversary being put in a metal box can defeat him when if you understand his power you would know that wouldnt work. As long as Tchalla comes out on top despite how it spits in the face of other characters established mythos you are happy because tchalla is a boss. That's the actual hypocrisy here but because I call you out on this, my opinion is not supposed to matter because I'm not a fan enough? Or I'm an unfan or whatever the new terms posters here attempt to shame readers who dont think like they do. Oh stop it. When you have people crediting ororo's eyes to bast there is a lot of ignorance going all around here. The difference is between others posters and myself, which you dont give me credit for, is that I go and do read so that I am empowered as a reader. This is how i was able to intelligently argue the feats as it relates to mephisto and logos. All in all, I guess I will always be a hypocrite to you and others because I'm gonna call bull whenever I see posters lowball other characters or ignore canon when it unfairly favors tchalla. I think tchalla is an awesome character but even with his tech and abilities he is still a man; him needing help at times doesn't diminish him or make him less of an awesome character in my eyes at least.

I like to call Coates chokes. But I've never hated on you or anyone who likes his work. I will defendappreciating T'Challa once in a while, however. And wasn't it just last week or so you stated you had never read The Client? And so could only comment on him beating Mephisto with scans?

[FLEX HECTIC]

The Nakia Appreciation Thread Merge Alert...


She doesn't look ugly at all...

[skyvolt2000]

Awards shows mean nothing.

Yes they do. You just have to know what awards to get nominate and even win. Especially if you are POC.

Folks pay attention when they see EMMY, OSCAR, GOLDEN GLOBE and so on under your name be it nomination or win.

That Emmy nomination for Roots kept Levar Burton employed and helped get Reading Rainbow started when jobs started to dry up.

Whoopi would not be where she is if it wasn't for her being on e of the FEW people to win an Oscar, Emmy, Tony & Grammy. She was the HIGHEST paid actress in Hollywood in the 90s. Now think who was around at that time-she making more than some men.

Donald Glover don't think those Writer Guild Awards for 3 straight years as a writer for 30 Rock-hasn't helped Donald. Or the Emmy nominations folks got for the episode where he was in charge.

Those awards have power. Mr Coates-no matter what we think of him-his awards ALONE got this book into places where others couldn't go.