Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[Marvell2100]

Yeah, Coates said he remade the world. I'm just saying what happened in the original book is open to interpretation.

The world was already fading, so it could have just as easily been Reed restoring the universe as T'CHalla, with him using the time gem to travel back in time. Hickman and Breevort weren't sure if he used the time gem or the reality gem.

Coates however solidly believed it was the reality gem, and put the ball in T'Challa's court. He doesn't necessarily get the credit for it publically… but at least Coates made sure to give him the nod in his book.

Okay, you just said Coates stated T'Challa remade the world. So for someone who uses a writer's word as gospel it's canon.

What happened at the end of Secret Wars is not open to interpretation, it's as plain as day.

[Marvell2100]

Is this a really long winded way to say "on panel, where it counts, T'challa remade the world"

???

Unless there is a panel, somewhere (which is possible) that gives someone else credit for it.... the continuity says it was T'challa until further notice.

It's a long winded way to keep a debate going.

[XPac]

Okay, you just said Coates stated T'Challa remade the world. So for someone who uses a writer's word as gospel it's canon.

What happened at the end of Secret Wars is not open to interpretation, it's as plain as day.

Yes, Coates saying on panel that he remade the world makes it canon.

As far as Secret Wars being as plain as day... Breevort and Hickman couldn't deicde what gem was being used by T'Challa at the end of the story. If they were confused about it, I don't think too many other people can be faulted for the vagueness of the scene either. Realtiy gem would be him remaking the world. Time gem would just mean he can travel back in time, he can prevent the world from being destroyed in his own timeline but he cant' restore the world with that.

But yes... Coates made sure that he got the credit on panel. Again, the public in the MU don't necessarily know he was responsible but readers at least do. Which again goes back to why the Wakandans don't worship him as god for restoring the universe. The world believes it was Reed and his family. T'CHalla presdumably wasn't all that interested in correcting anyone I guess.

[XPac]

Is this a really long winded way to say "on panel, where it counts, T'challa remade the world"

???

Unless there is a panel, somewhere (which is possible) that gives someone else credit for it.... the continuity says it was T'challa until further notice.

I'm being long winded here, because you're not getting my point.

I'm not saying it's not canon that T'Challa remade the world. I"m saying it was unclear in the original story (the editor and author of the story frankly were unclear about which gem was used), but Coates makes it canon.

But the point I was responding to was the notion that Wakandans should worship T'Challa as a god for restoring the universe. The world believes that Reed and his family saved the world.

[Marvell2100]

Yes, Coates saying on panel that he remade the world makes it canon.

As far as Secret Wars being as plain as day... Breevort and Hickman couldn't deicde what gem was being used by T'Challa at the end of the story. If they were confused about it, I don't think too many other people can be faulted for the vagueness of the scene either. Realtiy gem would be him remaking the world. Time gem would just mean he can travel back in time, he can prevent the world from being destroyed in his own timeline but he cant' restore the world with that.

But yes... Coates made sure that he got the credit on panel. Again, the public in the MU don't necessarily know he was responsible but readers at least do. Which again goes back to why the Wakandans don't worship him as god for restoring the universe. The world believes it was Reed and his family. T'CHalla presdumably wasn't all that interested in correcting anyone I guess.

How do we know the world believes that? Only a few heroes have said it. If there is a panel that says the entire world knows the FF sacrificed themselves please post it here.

So now it comes down to what the world believes to what we actually know. T'Challa restored the universe.

[Marvell2100]

I'm being long winded here, because you're not getting my point.

I'm not saying it's not canon that T'Challa remade the world. I"m saying it was unclear in the original story (the editor and author of the story frankly were unclear about which gem was used), but Coates makes it canon.

But the point I was responding to was the notion that Wakandans should worship T'Challa as a god for restoring the universe. The world believes that Reed and his family saved the world.

The point you were making is that it wasn't clear that T'Challa restored the universe until MoS posted scans. The worship T'Challa thing was an afterthought to a throwaway line.

[XPac]

How do we know the world believes that? Only a few heroes have said it. If there is a panel that says the entire world knows the FF sacrificed themselves please post it here.

So now it comes down to what the world believes to what we actually know. T'Challa restored the universe.

We know the world believes that, because we're being told that's what the world believes. Granted on panel evidence trumps anything editorial say in social media but I think the books pretty much have people giving Reed and his family the credit in the few instances it's being discussed.

But yes... in this case we as readers know more than what the fictional world knows. Happens a lot in fiction.

[XPac]

The point you were making is that it wasn't clear that T'Challa restored the universe until MoS posted scans. The worship T'Challa thing was an afterthought to a throwaway line.

My point was that it wasn't clear in the original story. Again, Breevort and Hickman didn't even know which gem was used. The freaking author and writer were unclear about what was happening in that scene.

Coates to his credit cleared the matter up.

[Marvell2100]

We know the world believes that, because we're being told that's what the world believes. Granted on panel evidence trumps anything editorial say in social media but I think the books pretty much have people giving Reed and his family the credit in the few instances it's being discussed.

But yes... in this case we as readers know more than what the fictional world knows. Happens a lot in fiction.

Where does it say it on panel? Or are you just assuming the world knows? I haven't seen anything on panel that says the world knows the FF sacrificed themselves to stop the incursions. That's what a few heroes believe.

What we know and what the general MU believes are not always the same things.

We know Peter Parker is Spider-Man. The greater MU doesn't.

[XPac]

Where does it say it on panel? Or are you just assuming the world knows? I haven't seen anything on panel that says the world knows the FF sacrificed themselves to stop the incursions. That's what a few heroes believe.

What we know and what the general MU believes are not always the same things.

We know Peter Parker is Spider-Man. The greater MU doesn't.

If Breevoet is telling us the world k is a then yeah ... I'm assuming the world knows unless something on panel says otherwise. To my recollection at least most discussions about the ending of Secret Wars gives the credit to Reed and his family. Am I missing something?

[Marvell2100]

My point was that it wasn't clear in the original story. Again, Breevort and Hickman didn't even know which gem was used. The freaking author and writer were unclear about what was happening in that scene.

Coates to his credit cleared the matter up.

They were unclear on what gem T'Challa used to save the universe. There is on panel proof that T'Challa restored the universe regardless of what gem was used. This was before Coates.

[Marvell2100]

If Breevoet is telling us the world k is a then yeah ... I'm assuming the world knows unless something on panel says otherwise. To my recollection at least most discussions about the ending of Secret Wars gives the credit to Reed and his family. Am I missing something?

Just the scans.

[XPac]

Just the scans.

That's what I was asking. Are there scans which conflict with what Breevoet was saying? If there are, I have no problem going with that over what editors say on social media.

But most if the stuff I recall seeing gives Reed and his family the credit.

[MindofShadow]

If Breevoet is telling us the world k is a then yeah ... I'm assuming the world knows unless something on panel says otherwise.

That's what I was asking. Are there scans which conflict with what Breevoet was saying? .

That isn't how comic continuity works.

[Marvell2100]

That's what I was asking. Are there scans which conflict with what Breevoet was saying? If there are, I have no problem going with that over what editors say on social media.

But most if the stuff I recall seeing gives Reed and his family the credit.

You've already stated on multiple posts that Brevoort and Hickman aren't sure what happened so why take their word on this.

I don't believe I said that the world didn't know about the FF. I said that I have yet to see a scan that says the whole world knows Reed and Sue sacrificed themselves.

Sorry, but you're going to have to prove your own claim.