Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[Ezyo1000]

I think the thing which prevents most comic book smart guys from going the armor route is that really it's sort of Starks niche.

I'm sure Reed, if he put his mind to it, could come up with a suit of armor that puts Starks to shame. And he probably does have a suit of armor lying around in his closet ... but really it's Starks thing. Or Dooms.

Of course we know T'Challa has armor... and he'll on occasion bust it out to fight Doom or Stark. But I think it's cooler when he beats Stark with windex. I sort of like him fightig fire with water instead of fire.

Yea i think that is better tbh and was pretty awesome and how T'Challa should be portrayed, beat the most technologically advance suit with Windex, that is the kinda guy T'Challa is. In hudlins run he did over use the armor a little too much, but i think overall it worked i think but i think he should use it for heavy hitters more so if he uses it at all.

It really bugged me when he put on the armor when fighting Cap. I know he did it to make a point, but it still bugged me.

Yea that seemed a little odd that he pulled it out then, for Iron man or Doom, that makes sense, but for cap no not really (though the armor looked pretty sweet in that scene) other then for dramatic effect.

[XPac]

He should just let the Armor be Shuri's thing. And she should always use it rather than the panther costume.

Yeah, I do when Shuri and T'Challa were both Black Panther a good way to sort of seperate them would be to possible have Shuri focus more on tech while T'Challa be more mystical.

Sadly I'm not certain there's as much need as far as distinguishing Shuri from T'Challa anymore. But I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[XPac]

Yea i think that is better tbh and was pretty awesome and how T'Challa should be portrayed, beat the most technologically advance suit with Windex, that is the kinda guy T'Challa is. In hudlins run he did over use the armor a little too much, but i think overall it worked i think but i think he should use it for heavy hitters more so if he uses it at all.



Yea that seemed a little odd that he pulled it out then, for Iron man or Doom, that makes sense, but for cap no not really (though the armor looked pretty sweet in that scene) other then for dramatic effect.

I had mixed feelings over Hudlin's usage of the character using the armor as much as he did.

On one hand I felt there were occasions he used it where he didn't necessarily need to. Facing Killmonger for example isn't the same thing as facing Dr. Doom.

But on the flip side, why wouldn't he wear the armor? Why not wear it all the time? It's sort of common sense vs the desire for him NOT to be handled like Iron Man.

[MindofShadow]

leave the armor to Iron Man. Once you keep opening that box, its hard to put it back.

If T'challa is fighting people stronger than himself, victory should come from his brain, tactical sense, and martial arts training. Not because he used an Iron Man Armor.


Sure... it makes since that Tchalla could make a vibranium laced Iron Man armor with a side of vibranium Captain American's shield and make Tony and Cap look like fools. But... that is just boring story telling.

And I would loooooooove if Wakanda went more mystical as a whole. The voodoo upgrades in Doom War were a nice touch (so many nice things in Doom War really but... yeah.... dat ending)

[XPac]

leave the armor to Iron Man. Once you keep opening that box, its hard to put it back.

If T'challa is fighting people stronger than himself, victory should come from his brain, tactical sense, and martial arts training. Not because he used an Iron Man Armor.


Sure... it makes since that Tchalla could make a vibranium laced Iron Man armor with a side of vibranium Captain American's shield and make Tony and Cap look like fools. But... that is just boring story telling.

And I would loooooooove if Wakanda went more mystical as a whole. The voodoo upgrades in Doom War were a nice touch (so many nice things in Doom War really but... yeah.... dat ending)

For me at least, one downside to relying on armor is that it becomes more about his tech than his skill.

For a Stark or a Reed, there's not a whole lot beyond the tech so that really needs to be the heart of the matter. But for T'Challa who is a skilled fighter and acrobat, that gets lost if he shows up in an invulnerable iron suit. He needs to showcase the things which differentiate him from characters like Reed or Stark. And I think that in part means showcasing more the man and his skills rather than his tech.

It's why I think he needs to be more an Batman than an Iron Man. I think the tech should be the icing on the cake rather than the cake itself. It's there for support. He should still have a lot of cool gear, but it shouldn't overshadow his natural gifts and talents. Unless of course you're fighting a Thanos or something... in that case just pull out everything including the kitchen sink.

[Ezyo1000]

I had mixed feelings over Hudlin's usage of the character using the armor as much as he did.

On one hand I felt there were occasions he used it where he didn't necessarily need to. Facing Killmonger for example isn't the same thing as facing Dr. Doom.

But on the flip side, why wouldn't he wear the armor? Why not wear it all the time? It's sort of common sense vs the desire for him NOT to be handled like Iron Man.

This was actually answered in Priests run when Tony confronted Hunter in Enemy of the State 2. Hunter tells Tony that T'Challa can make and use armor that rivals tony's but he chooses not to because that's the kind of man T'Challa is, he wants people to underestimate him like Tony did and because of that, its why people get burned by T'Challa, because they underestimate what he can do.

As for using it against Killmonger that was more of a traditional reason then anything. they both suited up in their armor to face each other.

leave the armor to Iron Man. Once you keep opening that box, its hard to put it back.

If T'challa is fighting people stronger than himself, victory should come from his brain, tactical sense, and martial arts training. Not because he used an Iron Man Armor.


Sure... it makes since that Tchalla could make a vibranium laced Iron Man armor with a side of vibranium Captain American's shield and make Tony and Cap look like fools. But... that is just boring story telling.

And I would loooooooove if Wakanda went more mystical as a whole. The voodoo upgrades in Doom War were a nice touch (so many nice things in Doom War really but... yeah.... dat ending)

I am torn between the Mystical thing, infact T'Challa himself stated he prefers the Technological advances over mystical as opposed to his father who preferred the opposite. Yes it can make for interesting stories as well but at the same time i feel like it can possibly also play into certain stereotypes that an african nation just uses all types of tribal and voodoo to accomplish anything and that is the sole reason for their strength, instead of being contenders because they are just as smart as any other advanced nation.

But i agree with you that Victories T'Challa has should be achieved through tactics, cleverness, and his martials arts prowess. Though i feel like it should be a little less in your face as Hudlin portrayed, as that was more how i see Cap handle things, but rather BP should be shown like Priests version, him letting you see what he wants you to see then taking you down with the fierceness and that hardcore badassery that Hudlin shown.

[XPac]

This was actually answered in Priests run when Tony confronted Hunter in Enemy of the State 2. Hunter tells Tony that T'Challa can make and use armor that rivals tony's but he chooses not to because that's the kind of man T'Challa is, he wants people to underestimate him like Tony did and because of that, its why people get burned by T'Challa, because they underestimate what he can do.

As for using it against Killmonger that was more of a traditional reason then anything. they both suited up in their armor to face each other.




I am torn between the Mystical thing, infact T'Challa himself stated he prefers the Technological advances over mystical as opposed to his father who preferred the opposite. Yes it can make for interesting stories as well but at the same time i feel like it can possibly also play into certain stereotypes that an african nation just uses all types of tribal and voodoo to accomplish anything and that is the sole reason for their strength, instead of being contenders because they are just as smart as any other advanced nation.

But i agree with you that Victories T'Challa has should be achieved through tactics, cleverness, and his martials arts prowess. Though i feel like it should be a little less in your face as Hudlin portrayed, as that was more how i see Cap handle things, but rather BP should be shown like Priests version, him letting you see what he wants you to see then taking you down with the fierceness and that hardcore badassery that Hudlin shown.

And that's why I think some of Hudlin's usage of the character at times was jarring coming right after Priest. Hudlin I think tried to show he was equal to a Stark or a Doom by the usage of the armor... but what was lost was the emphasis of what made him different from them. Again, I prefer my T'Challa fighting fire with water instead of fire.

[Ezyo1000]

And that's why I think some of Hudlin's usage of the character at times was jarring coming right after Priest. Hudlin I think tried to show he was equal to a Stark or a Doom by the usage of the armor... but what was lost was the emphasis of what made him different from them. Again, I prefer my T'Challa fighting fire with water instead of fire.

I agree with you that he started to use the Armor too much at some points (using it vs Cap seemed unnecessary) but others it seemed ok, I think he was trying to promote his own version of T'Challas tech while bringing in a few iconic choices from Priests years (the Energy daggers, the microweave and the Kimoyo card once) though those should be standard as well as the anti metal claws and the energy dampening boots, those should be basic bare bones gear then writers can add or gear as they please while keeping those basics in place:
Standard gear should be:

Anti-metal claws
Energy daggers
Vibranium Micro-weave
Energy Dampening boots
Kimoyo Card.

Then they can add their own mix into it but those 5 should ALWAYS be on BP no matter and should never change.

Also yes i think T'Challas real super powers are his brain and being the most underestimated man in the world

[XPac]

I agree with you that he started to use the Armor too much at some points (using it vs Cap seemed unnecessary) but others it seemed ok, I think he was trying to promote his own version of T'Challas tech while bringing in a few iconic choices from Priests years (the Energy daggers, the microweave and the Kimoyo card once) though those should be standard as well as the anti metal claws and the energy dampening boots, those should be basic bare bones gear then writers can add or gear as they please while keeping those basics in place:
Standard gear should be:

Anti-metal claws
Energy daggers
Vibranium Micro-weave
Energy Dampening boots
Kimoyo Card.

Then they can add their own mix into it but those 5 should ALWAYS be on BP no matter and should never change.

Also yes i think T'Challas real super powers are his brain and being the most underestimated man in the world

Yeah, I think it definately hurt the character as far as branding him when some of his signature stuff stopped being used. You're not going to see kids asking for energy daggers or kimoyo cards if they're not regularly used in the books. It's the little attention to detail like that which can make all the difference in the world when you're buidling a franchise.

My mom has never read a comic book in her life and she knows what a baterang is. That's ideally what you want in a true franchise character, but that can't happen if writers keep undermining the last guy by starting from scratch.

In the least I'm relatively certain Ewing won't ignore any of the stuff that Hickman brought to the table.

[MindofShadow]

I am torn between the Mystical thing, infact T'Challa himself stated he prefers the Technological advances over mystical as opposed to his father who preferred the opposite. Yes it can make for interesting stories as well but at the same time i feel like it can possibly also play into certain stereotypes that an african nation just uses all types of tribal and voodoo to accomplish anything and that is the sole reason for their strength, instead of being contenders because they are just as smart as any other advanced nation.

I think the difference here is that in the MU, "magic" or "socery" is something that can be learned through pure force of will and practice. And being able to mix the tech and the mystic side is something that can make Wakanda even more unique as it isn't something that is done in the MU. You have your "tech" guys like Tony and Reed and your sorcerers like Strange and Voodoo but to mix them is rare. only Doom seems to dabble in both at all.

And while something can be stereotypical, ignoring "african" tribal like stuff just because you are afriad of stereotypes isn't right either IMO.

Honeslty, I thin the move to mystic a little bit more would help separate him from Batman some more. I am kind of sick of "gadgets" and the love for them (even in this thread)

[Ezyo1000]

Yeah, I think it definately hurt the character as far as branding him when some of his signature stuff stopped being used. You're not going to see kids asking for energy daggers or kimoyo cards if they're not regularly used in the books. It's the little attention to detail like that which can make all the difference in the world when you're buidling a franchise.

My mom has never read a comic book in her life and she knows what a baterang is. That's ideally what you want in a true franchise character, but that can't happen if writers keep undermining the last guy by starting from scratch.

In the least I'm relatively certain Ewing won't ignore any of the stuff that Hickman brought to the table.

Actually Funny enough The daggers are the only thing that has shown up consistently as standard gear and the figurines they have shown for T'challa shown him having his antimetal claws so maybe that will make it once mechandise starts hitting the stores. Though when they First shown us the ANAD line for characters they had a little info on what gear the characters would use and they said for T'Challa he would be using vibranium weapons again as well as the KotD power so MAYBE that means Priests standard gear will be baseline again mix with Hickmans title he gave but never once used in combat. Someone could also tweet Ewing too and ask if he intends on giving T'Challa his Priest version gear set i suppose

[Realdealholy]

Interesting responses by everyone. My thoughts:

-T'Challa's suit should be covered in vibranium, like in the priest run. That should be standard, and should be T'Challa's preferred suit due to practical and possibly his personal preference (faster mobility, agility, flexibility reaction time, will be underestimated by foes, wants to move around quietly, tactical advantages etc).

-T'Challa should have an armor available but use it only in the rarest of circumstances.

-Shuri should rock the Doomwar armor. She most likely won't be black panther anytime soon, so if she enters combat against powered beings she'll need something to level things up. You can add some personal preference stuff as well (She prefers attacking her opponents head on).

-A bit more mysticism featured in Wakada would be cool (makes them unique). As long as it don't overshadow the tech (which also makes them unique). A healthy blend is ideal.

-always felt T'Challa would lean more on tech, while Shuri would lean a bit more on mysticism.

-It must be emphasized in stories and the films that, while T'Challa physical abilities do help him, T'Challa ultimately gains victories due to his tactics, strategy, great usage of tech, and so on. His brain should be his biggest asset.

[Ezyo1000]

I think the difference here is that in the MU, "magic" or "socery" is something that can be learned through pure force of will and practice. And being able to mix the tech and the mystic side is something that can make Wakanda even more unique as it isn't something that is done in the MU. You have your "tech" guys like Tony and Reed and your sorcerers like Strange and Voodoo but to mix them is rare. only Doom seems to dabble in both at all.

And while something can be stereotypical, ignoring "african" tribal like stuff just because you are afriad of stereotypes isn't right either IMO.

Honeslty, I thin the move to mystic a little bit more would help separate him from Batman some more. I am kind of sick of "gadgets" and the love for them (even in this thread)

Im not afraid of them having a mystical aspect to Wakanda as it is apart of African history. I guess more so meant that, for instance, we all know that T'Challa is a genius, part of the 8 smartest people on earth and a tactical and technological genius, military leader and a mastery of every form of martial arts and secret african styles. however, there are writers who will not write him as that genius we all know he is, they give him bits and pieces of what he is instead of the whole package, like they refuse to show him how he really is (which Stan Lee himself wrote him as that type of genius originally and priest made it standard and updated, writes try to pretend that SL didn't originally make him that way) so the issue can be if its promoted that he uses mystical arts as well, that overshadows the Tech side of Wakanda and they start trying to portray him as a shaman or something instead of everything that he is.

Though i think, if done right, the KotD power can play a very nice "Mystical" side to BP

[XPac]

I think the difference here is that in the MU, "magic" or "socery" is something that can be learned through pure force of will and practice. And being able to mix the tech and the mystic side is something that can make Wakanda even more unique as it isn't something that is done in the MU. You have your "tech" guys like Tony and Reed and your sorcerers like Strange and Voodoo but to mix them is rare. only Doom seems to dabble in both at all.

And while something can be stereotypical, ignoring "african" tribal like stuff just because you are afriad of stereotypes isn't right either IMO.

Honeslty, I thin the move to mystic a little bit more would help separate him from Batman some more. I am kind of sick of "gadgets" and the love for them (even in this thread)

I think for the most part vibranium is "magical" enough. If they can incorporate it into his gear and continue to use it in new and unique ways it'll be enough of a blend of magic and tech to make T'Challa feel unique.

It's sort of dangerous to go too far with magic because it's such an open ended plot device. And it potentiall overshadows the tech aspects of T'Challa, which I feel are overall more important if push comes to shove.

It is something cool to play with, but probably conservatively and ideally on an entirely different character like Shuri, like you said earlier.

[Dboi654]

Interesting responses by everyone. My thoughts:

-T'Challa's suit should be covered in vibranium, like in the priest run. That should be standard, and should be T'Challa's preferred suit due to practical and possibly his personal preference (faster mobility, agility, flexibility reaction time, will be underestimated by foes, wants to move around quietly, tactical advantages etc).

-T'Challa should have an armor available but use it only in the rarest of circumstances.

-Shuri should rock the Doomwar armor. She most likely won't be black panther anytime soon, so if she enters combat against powered beings she'll need something to level things up. You can add some personal preference stuff as well (She prefers attacking her opponents head on).

-A bit more mysticism featured in Wakada would be cool (makes them unique). As long as it don't overshadow the tech (which also makes them unique). A healthy blend is ideal.

-always felt T'Challa would lean more on tech, while Shuri would lean a bit more on mysticism.

-It must be emphasized in stories and the films that, while T'Challa physical abilities do help him, T'Challa ultimately gains victories due to his tactics, strategy, great usage of tech, and so on. His brain should be his biggest asset.

Yep. no need to have him wearing an arbor all the time only when he needs to. I would like him to have an arbor similar to that of Raiden from metal gear. Maybe not as over the top as Raiden but you get the Idea