Marvel & Jack Kirby Family Settle Long-Running Legal Dispute

[Oculus Orbus]

I am glad to read this. I think sometimes the claims on the Kirby side were a little overboard like claiming Spider-Man.

These kinds of claims tend to always be overblown, as I understand it. It's kinda like when someone sues a company for five-hundred million dollars. Realistically, they'll only get a fraction of that, but hey, ya never know. In any case, since Kirby had claimed creation of Spidey, it had to be included. Personally, I think he thought he created Spider-Man, but Greg Theakston did a pretty in-depth investigation on the subject and it was more than likely Jack was getting some pre-Marvel characters that shared similarities with Spidey (Night Fighter, The Fly, Silver Spider) conflated with his drawing the first appearance cover.

It's not without reason to see why he might think that.

[Iron Maiden]

Too bad this couldn't have happened over 20 years ago when Kirby was still alive to appreciate it.

Marvel wasn't as profitable then. Remember, they had been run into the ground with the junk bond dealing by Ron Perelman and by 1996 they were in bankrupcy. That's the one thing that is interesting about it. I don't think there was a peep from the Kirby family from back then.

[Iron Maiden]

These kinds of claims tend to always be overblown, as I understand it. It's kinda like when someone sues a company for five-hundred million dollars. Realistically, they'll only get a fraction of that, but hey, ya never know. In any case, since Kirby had claimed creation of Spidey, it had to be included. Personally, I think he thought he created Spider-Man, but Greg Theakston did a pretty in-depth investigation on the subject and it was more than likely Jack was getting some pre-Marvel characters that shared similarities with Spidey (Night Fighter, The Fly, Silver Spider) conflated with his drawing the first appearance cover.

It's not without reason to see why he might think that.

He and Stan both had/have notoriously bad memories too. Even Ditko admits the creation of Spider-Man was more Stan than his.

[Michael P]

I hate how these settlements always have NDAs. I think if a court case is settled beforehand, there should at the very least be a timeframe after which point the details are made public.

Why, exactly? Civil court cases aren't really the public's business.

If anyone should be getting the rights to Marvel characters it should be Stan Lee. Nuff said.

Stan signed his half of those rights over to Marvel years ago for a generous royalties plan and, essentially, a generous pension for himself and his wife.

Regardless, I'm glad that Marvel was able to do right by the Kirby family without the Supreme Court ordering them to, which is what it might have come to.

[Lady Warp Spasm]

Glad this was settled on good terms.

[The Bobster]

Stan Lee got royaltees a few years back, after sueing Marvel himself. Jack Kirby co-created most of the 60s ones (with the exeption of a few, like Spidey and strange).

Kirby claimed he had far more input, and that even though Ditko redesigned Spidey after he came up with the concept. We don't know if there is anything to this, BUT there is no doubt that he created them with Stan Lee. Stan doesn't dispute that.

So it's fine saying Stan deserves the royaltees he fought for (if you don't accept that they were work for hire and got paid as to the agreement), but absolutely no reason to take the zero sum argument that Stan deserves it but Kirby doesn't.

Stan Lee sued for the percentage they were contractually obligated to pay him from the movies. Kirby had no such deal with Marvel.

The settlement between Lee and Marvel in 2005 also ended any payments to Lee for future films.

[THANOSRULES]

I love Jack man...he's such a huge part of my comics fandom.

When I think of marvel comics, the first thing I think of is Jack Kirby. (sorry stan, your the 2nd)

[Oculus Orbus]

He and Stan both had/have notoriously bad memories too. Even Ditko admits the creation of Spider-Man was more Stan than his.

Oh, I don't think Kirby had a hand in creating Spider-Man, either. I just think Kirby thought he did. As to Stan's "bad memory," he's been using that line of bullshit since day one. He "forgot" to credit a lot of people that did the heavy lifting back in the early days, but goddamn if he remembered just who created Spider-Man! When you run the show and your uncle owns it, you can pretty much make any claim you like. Who's gonna argue?

[Darrell D.]

If anyone should be getting the rights to Marvel characters it should be Stan Lee. Nuff said.

Did he design the characters that they use to sell the books, toys and games?
He was Ditko's and Kirby's editor, basically.

[Darthfury78]

I am glad that the Kirby Family finally settled their dispute with Marvel. That drama has last since the dawn of time. Why doesn't Steve Ditko have his own dispute against Marvel? It's only fair..

[cookepuss]

TBH, there was nothing to settle. Given both the 2011 win for Marvel and the failed appeal in 2013, Kirby's estate was probably going to end up losing again anyway.

Just because Marvel's suddenly very successful doesn't mean that they owe the Kirby estate any more money. Work for hire is still work for hire. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Kirby cashed his paycheck. That alone would've damned him in any court. Formal, written contract or not, cashingt he check after doing the job satisfies all of the requirements for a contract: offer, consideration, acceptance.

If he had felt that his compensation had been unfair then he should've never cashed it. Period. Kirby didn't own any of those characters. He created them and Marvel effectively bought them. That's the nature of the business. As a pro artist myself, it's a situation I'm very familiar with. Unless they came to some other agreement regarding the IP ownership beforehand, Kirby's reward was just his paycheck and an "attaboy" for a job well done. That's it.

I feel for the family. I do. Imagine finding a "worthless" rock, selling it for $5, and then finding out later on that it was worth $5 BILLION. I'd crap myself twice and die. Still, what's done is done. Crying after the fact is pointless.

That Marvel/Disney settled with them is more PR than anything else. I sincerely doubt that they'll get any sort of prolonged royalties. Kirby co-created, but he didn't own these properties. Disney is probably tossing them a bone with a lump sum and a series of payments that end after a certain period of time. It's probably not even enough to put a slight dent in their coffers.

This settlement, imo, is probably Disney's way of being nice and saving face. I'm sure that they didn't want any more bad press, even if precedent favored them heading into the Supreme Court. I don't think that Marvel/Disney was in any real danger of losing.

[Hypestyle]

As intellectual properties, the Kirby-era created characters are entirely too important to Marvel/Disney's bottom line. Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed on the corporate side and a deal was brokered.

[cookepuss]

As intellectual properties, the Kirby-era created characters are entirely too important to Marvel/Disney's bottom line. Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed on the corporate side and a deal was brokered.

Cooler heads nothing. They just wanted it dead and buried. With so much stuff on Marvel's plate in the next 5 years, this Kirby case was an unnecessary distraction.

Let's also not forget that Disney has had a hand in shaping copyright law to their benefit. They lobbied so hard back in the 90s to change US copyright law that the eventual extension was nicknamed "The Mickey Mouse Protection Act." Disney has a LOT of sway. Supreme court or not, it woudl've been a "nothing but net" basket for them.

[Sighphi]

After GotG got a lot of cash Disney couldn't take the chance and decided to pay them off.
It would have been awesome of Marvel fought and lost, i really would've liked seeing if Marvel was going to create new characters, shift the ones they still own, or just folded.

[kodave]

TBH, there was nothing to settle. Given both the 2011 win for Marvel and the failed appeal in 2013, Kirby's estate was probably going to end up losing again anyway.

Just because Marvel's suddenly very successful doesn't mean that they owe the Kirby estate any more money. Work for hire is still work for hire. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Kirby cashed his paycheck. That alone would've damned him in any court. Formal, written contract or not, cashingt he check after doing the job satisfies all of the requirements for a contract: offer, consideration, acceptance.

If he had felt that his compensation had been unfair then he should've never cashed it. Period. Kirby didn't own any of those characters. He created them and Marvel effectively bought them. That's the nature of the business. As a pro artist myself, it's a situation I'm very familiar with. Unless they came to some other agreement regarding the IP ownership beforehand, Kirby's reward was just his paycheck and an "attaboy" for a job well done. That's it.

I feel for the family. I do. Imagine finding a "worthless" rock, selling it for $5, and then finding out later on that it was worth $5 BILLION. I'd crap myself twice and die. Still, what's done is done. Crying after the fact is pointless.

That Marvel/Disney settled with them is more PR than anything else. I sincerely doubt that they'll get any sort of prolonged royalties. Kirby co-created, but he didn't own these properties. Disney is probably tossing them a bone with a lump sum and a series of payments that end after a certain period of time. It's probably not even enough to put a slight dent in their coffers.

This settlement, imo, is probably Disney's way of being nice and saving face. I'm sure that they didn't want any more bad press, even if precedent favored them heading into the Supreme Court. I don't think that Marvel/Disney was in any real danger of losing.

I think all of this is exactly right.

In addition, I would assume the settlement agreement also bars the Kirby heirs from filing any further suits against Marvel over ownership issues in exchange for what is probably a nominal amount of money for Disney/Marvel in this day and age. Other than PR reasons, that's the only conceivable reason I could see Disney/Marvel settling at this point instead of waiting on the extremely high odds the Supreme Court would decline to hear the case and the Appeals Court ruling in Disney/Marvel's favor would stand.