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  1. #961
    Mighty Member Mike's Avatar
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    Nova #12 and Amazing Spider-Man #171.
    One of my favorite crossovers.
    1275791.jpg728455.jpg

  2. #962
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    I just read the 5 trades that collect the Clone Saga (the pre-SpiderReilly parts) and it was a mixed journey, like 55% bad and 45% good, i really enjoyed the beginning and some parts of the middle, but man most of the climax was awfull and really hard to finish, thought i still find some moments enjoyable.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  3. #963
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    As of now I am 43 issues into Nick Spencer's run. I give him props for returning Spider-Man to something resembling a pre-Slott status quo, but overall I find it to be 'meh'.

    1. The plot is too loose and there is too much focus on peripheral characters.

    2. The constant artstyle changes are distracting.

    3. Peter himself comes off bland most of the time.

    4. Spencer's Jameson and his "both sides are to blame" approach to his relationship with Peter is in poor taste and unfounded given 616 history.

    5. Peter's relationship with MJ is uninteresting due to the fact that we know it worked out. The fact Peter can't remember any of it doesn't change this for the readers.

  4. #964
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    5. Peter's relationship with MJ is uninteresting due to the fact that we know it worked out. The fact Peter can't remember any of it doesn't change this for the readers.
    Interesting. Can you elaborate on this?

  5. #965
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Interesting. Can you elaborate on this?
    I am mainly referring to issue # 29 when Peter misses his chance to say goodbye to MJ before her flight. We've seen a similar situation in JMS' run and we know they ultimately found a way to make their relationship work. I also find all the talk about whether they will ever be a stable couple or not to be redundant. It is the equivalent of Tom King tackling the "Can Batman ever truly be happy?" question just 10 years after Morrison's run.

    If Marvel is ok with Peter and MJ being together as long as they're not married (which I still don't get...they take issue with them signing a legal contract but not with them practically functioning as a married couple? Also doesn't that make Mephisto look dumb? You could argue Peter and MJ played him by taking advantage of a legal human-made loophole...but I digress), why not continue their dynamic from pre-OMD instead of recycling the same ideas? It's also not like marriage is the end-all-be-all of love anymore, it's common for a couple in their mid-20s-early 30s to be close but not be officially married.

    A common criticism I hear of 616 Spider-Man is that he never learns from his mistakes. See, I think that is slightly inaccurate. I think the problem is he always learns from the same mistakes.

  6. #966
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    I am mainly referring to issue # 29 when Peter misses his chance to say goodbye to MJ before her flight. We've seen a similar situation in JMS' run and we know they ultimately found a way to make their relationship work. I also find all the talk about whether they will ever be a stable couple or not to be redundant. It is the equivalent of Tom King tackling the "Can Batman ever truly be happy?" question just 10 years after Morrison's run.

    If Marvel is ok with Peter and MJ being together as long as they're not married (which I still don't get...they take issue with them signing a legal contract but not with them practically functioning as a married couple? Also doesn't that make Mephisto look dumb? You could argue Peter and MJ played him by taking advantage of a legal human-made loophole...but I digress), why not continue their dynamic from pre-OMD instead of recycling the same ideas? It's also not like marriage is the end-all-be-all of love anymore, it's common for a couple in their mid-20s-early 30s to be close but not be officially married.
    I think that's a valid take.

    I like Spencer's run more than you do, and I see Spencer being self-reflexive about it, but I understand how that seems redundant.

    OMD ultimately made the entire continuity after it nihilistic and pointless. Marvel's never gonna find a love interest that audiences will accept over Mary Jane, and they will never get audiences to settle for anything less than having the marriage back. So it's just a bunch of pointless spinning of wheels that you see with Slott and also Spencer to some extent.

    A common criticism I hear of 616 Spider-Man is that he never learns from his mistakes. See, I think that is slightly inaccurate. I think the problem is he always learns from the same mistakes.
    Ouch.

    You are right. But ouch.

  7. #967
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I think that's a valid take.

    I like Spencer's run more than you do, and I see Spencer being self-reflexive about it, but I understand how that seems redundant.
    More specifically, I find it 'meh' after the first 10-or-so issues. 'Back to Basics' and the Thieves Guild story arc were solid. Issues 33-36 were also very good.

  8. #968
    Mighty Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    I read again the finale of Slott's run, Go Down Swinging plus #801, and my opinion remains the same. It's an enjoyable story, with some great action and character moments, and some problems here and there, but a nice way of saying goodbye to the title Slott wrote for a decade. ASM #801 is a lovely one and done inspired by The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man and it puts a smile on my face every time I read it
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  9. #969
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    I just read the 5 trades that collect the Clone Saga (the pre-SpiderReilly parts) and it was a mixed journey, like 55% bad and 45% good, i really enjoyed the beginning and some parts of the middle, but man most of the climax was awfull and really hard to finish, thought i still find some moments enjoyable.
    How long did it take you to read this and are you reading the 6 ben reilly trades that follow this? Personally this is one period i have not read yet and i own all the trades digitally but its im my backlog

  10. #970
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yada View Post
    How long did it take you to read this and are you reading the 6 ben reilly trades that follow this? Personally this is one period i have not read yet and i own all the trades digitally but its im my backlog
    I wasn't consistent reading, but i guest it was around four to five weeks, it was really hard to get througth some parts. Amd yes i'm planning on reading Ben Reilly trades next.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
    Nobody does it better by Jeff Loveness

    "I am Thou, Thou Art I"
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  11. #971
    Mighty Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    This last couple of days I dedicated my free time to re-read some ASM issues: 275, 276, and from 278 to 281 plus 283 to 289. The stories from 275 to 281 are pretty solid, some great drama with Peter and MJ, and Flash tangled in a love triangle with Betty and Ned Leeds, that gets worse once he's framed as the Hobgoblin. And the action was no short of fun. Ron Frenz and Rick Leonardi do an amazing job and even the filler issue by Jo Duffy, Peter David and Mike Harris is a compelling addition to the plot. Then, came Gangwar and everything went down the toilet. I think Gangwar is a nice failure. There are some interesting ideas (not fully developed) and genuine good moments, but the plot is convoluted, the double crossings which the story is full of don't make a lot of sense and the change from Tom Defalco to Christopher Priest is jarring. I know the behind the scenes and that the relationship between both was dreadful, but they tell two completely different stories and Priest didn't even try to unify his ideas with Defalco's. Then, Peter David is left to deal with the unmasking of the Hobgoblin and I appreciate the try, but the answer to the mystery doesn't work at all, at least not with the reasons he gave as to why Ned Leeds chose to become his evil alter ego. I'm glad that later on, Roger Stern fixed it, even when the solution wasn't the greatest as presented, it was satisfactory. Also, it's fun to see how David hyped the Foreigner, a villain that didn't have a lasting impact in retrospective (though it's nice that Nick Spencer decided to bring him back). I don't comprehend why give the mantle of the Hobgoblin to Jason Macendale. Even in the same issue the Kingpin mocks him. Visually, Gangwar is a so-so experience, nothing to be remembered for in that front. I don't know if it was the first job of Erik Larsen in the series or with the character, but he doesn't stand out, but it's the only reason I can think of in favor of the art (and I'm not even sure about it)
    Last edited by Chubistian; 07-31-2020 at 11:04 PM.
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  12. #972
    Dark Angel of Feminism Shadowcat's Avatar
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    For international Spider-Man’s day, I decided to go read one of my favorite eras. I just finished Web 66, Amazing 334, New Warriors vol. 1 1, cover dated July 1990. The beginning of the return of the Sinister Six, and the New Warriors just launched.

  13. #973
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    I've been re-reading Life Story. Still brilliant. While I was at it, also Spectacular Spider-Man 310, which is maybe the best tribute I've seen to Spider-Man's heart and soul in forever. Just really captured the basic human nature of Peter Parker.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  14. #974
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    I've been re-reading Life Story. Still brilliant. While I was at it, also Spectacular Spider-Man 310, which is maybe the best tribute I've seen to Spider-Man's heart and soul in forever. Just really captured the basic human nature of Peter Parker.
    Zdarsky really does bring the room together, doesn't he?

  15. #975

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    I've been re-reading Life Story. Still brilliant. While I was at it, also Spectacular Spider-Man 310, which is maybe the best tribute I've seen to Spider-Man's heart and soul in forever. Just really captured the basic human nature of Peter Parker.
    I love Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man #310. A perfect issue everyone should read. Deservedly won Chip Zdarsky an Eisner Award.

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