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  1. #1081
    Spectacular Member JTait's Avatar
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    I've been re-reading the first couple of arcs of Brand New Day. It isn't bad, and benefits from some very solid artwork, but it all feels a little hollow and forced. A lot of the dialogue and narration seems desperate to scream out to the reader that this is the classic Spider-Man that readers grew up with. By the time I'd read 5-6 issues it started to really grate.

    Dan Slott is clearly an accomplished writer, but I do find that he tends to write very one dimensional characters. It is very difficult to get invested in the likes of Lily Hollister, Carlie Cooper and Dexter Bennett when their entire personality is laid bare in basically every line of dialogue that they are given. Mr. Negative is a great villain and his introduction in the opening arc was handled pretty well. I actually think Menace had more potential and a better design than I remember. I do recall the character going absolutely nowhere. The same is true of Jackpot, who even in her first couple of appearances is clearly a very poorly conceived character.

    I'm quite looking forward to reading on. What I would give Brand New Day credit for is creating a real sense of momentum and pace. Whether 'The Brain Trust' were successful or not, the number of subplots and new characters introduced in the first few issues is impressive.

  2. #1082
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTait View Post
    I finished my protracted re-read of JMS's run this week by reading Back in Black and One More Day.

    Back in Black was quite an unpleasant read. It kind of works as an Elsewords story, but is very bleak and depressing with patchy art and some quite laboured storytelling. From memory, it was clear at the time of publishing that the events of the story would be undone pretty quickly. I wonder what the reaction would have been if this had been presented as the new status quo? I'm guessing it would not have been positive.

    One More Day was an interesting read. In some ways it is a better story than Back in Black - I certainly enjoyed reading it more. Quesada's artwork is really good in patches and there are occasional hints of the wit and energy that JMS brought to his earlier run. Part 3 (the one with the alternate Peter's and Peter and MJ's daughter) was actually quite a poignant read and I thought the depiction of the two alternate Peter's was really fresh and interesting. Mephisto kind of works as the cackling, all powerful malevolent adversary too.

    The problem is that most of the story makes very little sense, the core concept is very poorly conceived and I find it incredibly difficult to buy the idea that MJ and Peter would even begin to countenance making the deal. The sequence set in the new 'One More Day' reality is also really clumsily written and felt like a total waste of pages.

    Overall, this is quite a sad send off for JMS. The freshness and new ideas that he brought to the character earlier in his run seem a lifetime away. The general consensus seems to be that his run ended up gradually petering out, and I would have to say that I agree. In hindsight, he probably should have bowed out after #500.
    What did you think about the rest of JMS’s run? From how people talk, you’d be forgiven for thinking that there are only three story arcs in the entire thing.

  3. #1083
    Spectacular Member JTait's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    What did you think about the rest of JMS’s run? From how people talk, you’d be forgiven for thinking that there are only three story arcs in the entire thing.
    I think I posted a couple of times in this thread, but basically it is really good up until the departure of Jr Jr when it starts to lose focus. The earlier arcs are really fresh, interesting and have aged surprisingly well. The Spider-totem business reads much better now than when it was originally published for some reason. The run does miss original villains, but a lot of the new ones that JMS introduced are fine. Jr Jr's artwork is probably the best of his career and Peter going into teaching was a masterstroke and adds loads to the stories.

    Unfortunately you can tell when the stories started to get more influenced by editorial. The problems with Sins Past are well documented, and from the New Avengers arc onwards his run becomes quite an unsatisfying read, jumping from one event to the next.

  4. #1084
    Amazing Member jda95's Avatar
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    Reread The Lost Years almost immediately after finishing BR:SM last week. JMS's storytelling is top-tier.

  5. #1085
    Y'know. Pav's Avatar
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    Earlier today, I finished reading all fifty issues of the original Spider-Woman series!

    For anyone who hasn't read it before like I hadn't -- man oh man! Talk about an up and down series!

    1) The original creative team with Marv Wolfman as writer was incredibly off. Think about it: a mysterious femme fatale / ex-super spy protagonist is given a boring lunkhead of a SHIELD boyfriend and an uncle-figure character with Arthurian magic...?! The fact that Jessica fought both Excalibur and the Brothers Grimm in the earliest issues shows how tonally disjointed it was -- and would kind of remain for it's whole duration, to various degrees.

    2) Wolfman leaving and Gruenwald taking over the writing duties helped the series gain its footing, focusing on the macabre. For me, the best issue of the series was the issue featuring The Needle, and the multi-issue team-up between Spider-Woman and the Shroud was fun.

    3) Then the series takes a dive with the introduction of writer Michael Fleisher, who completely changes the status quo, promises to explain those changes later, and then never does. At this point, Jessica has decided to become a bounty hunter and is working with a "genius criminologist" named Scotty who is confined to a wheelchair. Their partnership would make for an interesting story, especially considering Scotty's eventual turn as the original Hornet -- of major interest to this Slingers fan! -- except that their interactions area completely two-dimensional, just like every aspect of the series at this point. The friendship between Jessica and Lindsey McCabe is like the only part of the book that was still thriving at this point.

    4) SINGLE ISSUE SPECTACULAR: watch as J.M. DeMatteis introduces comic book readers to Turner D. Century!

    5) And then Chris Claremont arrives and every aspect of the book immediately feels more important, more emotionally relevant and realistic. Jessica feels like she has a place in the world and so does Spider-Woman. Her interactions with the X-Men and Viper hold weight (while past relationships often felt superficial) and her job as a private investigator feels more in-line with her personality and history than being a bounty hunter ever did. Claremont even made an honest attempt to close plot holes opened at the very beginning of the series.

    6) Finally, we get a few issues from Ann Nocenti before the series ends. She does a single Gruenwald-esque issue introducing Daddy Longlegs (who Gruenwald helped create), brings back the fan-requested Gypsy Moth, and then has a SUPER WEIRD FINAL ISSUE with a villain who's "been there the whole time" and has captured half of the characters who've appeared in the series, and Spider-Woman is able to save them and then takes them back to her apartment FOR A PARTY but then her MAGIC UNCLE reappears and the astral form of Spider-Woman accompanies him to fight Morgan le Fay and she wins but also DIES and then she gets her wish for NOBODY TO REMEMBER SHE EXISTED. END OF SERIES.

    Weird. Luckily, I read that she was brought back within a year over in the pages of Avengers

    As for me, I think I'll immediately dive into third volume of Spider-Woman, starring Mattie Franklin and featuring Jessica Drew in a supporting role. I hated the Byrne era of Spider-Man, but I am interested to go back and read this series as a whole.

    -Pav, who remembers liking Skin and Bones...
    You were Spider-Man then. You and Peter had agreed on it. But he came back right when you started feeling comfortable.
    You know what it means when he comes back
    .

    "You're not the better one, Peter. You're just older."
    --------------------
    Closet full of comics? Consider donating to my school! DM for details

  6. #1086
    Mighty Member Mike's Avatar
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    Amazing Spider-Man Epic Collection: Man-Wolf At Midnight
    Some of my favorite stories.
    59456418-3383644723.jpg

  7. #1087
    Y'know. Pav's Avatar
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    FOLLOW UP!!!

    Moments ago, I finished reading all eighteen issues of the 1999 Spider-Woman series starring Mattie Franklin!

    Now, let me first admit that John Byrne's Spider-Man comics are my least favorite in my history of reading. I really disliked the changes Byrne tried to make with Chapter One, the choice to completely move away from almost every storyline pre-reboot, the WAY he rebooted things with the Gathering of Five / Final Chapter, and in general, the status quo that he and Howard Mackie established, leading to MJ's death. It was not fun.

    HOWEVER! That was so long ago, and after reading the original Spider-Woman series, I thought it'd be fun to read the 1999 Spider-Woman series as well. Having read less than a handful of the issues back in 1999-2000, most of this series was a new read for me.

    And y'know what? Overall, I liked it. But it had some major flaws, and I can see why it only lasted 18 issues at a time when Mayday Parker was on her way to 100. Nevertheless, there's some interesting parallels between this series and the original.

    One thing that the original series suffered from at times was Jessica Drew being a rather flat character, and similarly, one main issue in this series is the lack of depth to Mattie Franklin herself: she's a cocky teen who idolizes Spider-Man and is brash with even those closest to her. But beyond that, there's nothing really there. She's a cardboard cut-out of what John Byrne thinks a teenage girl should be in 1999. But it's never lost on me, especially due to Mattie's dialogue, that she's being written by a middle-aged man. I didn't know a lot of girls my age mentioning Euclid in passing back in 1999, and there are two issues in a row where Byrne utilizes the same Monty Python joke. Mattie / Matt / Martha has no established reasons to do anything she does because she's a "teen hero" and nothing else.

    The other main issue I had with the series was the art of Bart Sears. I'm sure the man has his fans, but I don't happen to be one of them -- at least not the work he did in this series. The shapes of his heads are contorted and stretched in such odd ways; at times it feels like I'm reading a comic about clay figurines, especially during the civilian moments of the story.

    What I really enjoyed most about this series -- and it's another parallel with the original series -- was its inclusion of brand new, rather spooky or odd or otherwise creepy antagonists. While the original series had the likes of The Needle, the Brothers Grimm, Daddy Longlegs, and the Waxman, in the 1999 series Mattie fights villains such as Flesh and Bones, Mr. Itch & Mrs. Scratch, the Shadowcaster, and the now-necessary confrontation between a Spider-Woman and a werewolf. The villains really shined, especially Flesh and Bones, who I can't believe we haven't seen since elsewhere.

    And even if Mattie's relationships felt shallow -- and I'd go so far as to say hers didn't strike me as a believable real life -- I did like the supporting cast of the book on paper: first, you had her bumming around with Jessica Drew and Madame Web in her super-hero role; then, as a civilian, you have her living with JJJ and Marla and attending a rarely-seen school with nothing notable save for the friendship of Mattie and Cheryl -- whose fate is left on a cliffhanger! Oh, and Maxwell from the Gathering of Five is there to steer the plot around.

    Overall, I think this book had some solid ideas that were just not properly fleshed out. For example, I've long thought that an ongoing featuring a team of various Spider Ladies could make for an absolutely excellent book, and here we get 3/4 -- yet it never feels like anyone is being utilized to their fullest potential; there's a weight lacking to their motivations, maybe. Still, the idea was there. Similarly, I love the idea that Mattie wouldn't stick to just one costume; it feels like a precursor to, say, America Chavez. But the costumes themselves are very hit or miss, and I'm not sure the one they finally stuck with is the correct one. Most importantly, I feel as though without meaning to do so, John Byrne created a Spider-Woman who could be transgender; she reads to me as someone who might consider themselves gender fluid, anyway, and I think it'd be a great opportunity to give her character more depth and nuance, something she lacked in this series, if Marvel ever wanted to attempt to bring her back and establish some prominence in her character.

    One other thing I'll mention: early on in my reading of the 1999 series, it hit me how it read more closely to the 1979 series than to the comics coming out today! Makes sense though when do you the math!

    Now that I've finished both Spider-Woman series, I think the next Marvel comics on my summer reading list will be Bishop: the Last X-Man and YES THAT'S RIGHT YOU GUESSED IT:

    SLINGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    -Pav, who is excited to finally read every issue of B:TLXM...
    Last edited by Pav; 08-01-2022 at 11:32 AM.
    You were Spider-Man then. You and Peter had agreed on it. But he came back right when you started feeling comfortable.
    You know what it means when he comes back
    .

    "You're not the better one, Peter. You're just older."
    --------------------
    Closet full of comics? Consider donating to my school! DM for details

  8. #1088
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Today I am reading 690-700 I have already Read Superior Spiderman but I am trying to read asll the Amazing Spiderman Issues. Iv e read 1-163 and 500-695. I also want to get up to modern Spiderman titles so reading as much as I can.
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  9. #1089
    Astonishing Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    Just read the JMS/JRJR run and stopped before Sins Past.
    If JMS ended there, it would’ve been a damn perfect run.

    Although, Civil War is an integral Spidey story IMO - it’s a shame it’s overshadowed by what followed.

  10. #1090
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    I am currently reading the 9 issue run of Morbius from 2012? 2013? The one right after Amazing Spiderman 699.1
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  11. #1091
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Pav, I really liked your reviews of the Spider-Woman runs.

    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    Today I am reading 690-700 I have already Read Superior Spiderman but I am trying to read asll the Amazing Spiderman Issues. Iv e read 1-163 and 500-695. I also want to get up to modern Spiderman titles so reading as much as I can.
    What did you think of these comics?

    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I Love Untold tales. They are my favorite Spiderman stories.





    No hate here. I love Ben Reilly!
    What are you favorite untold tales? It is a great run.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  12. #1092
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Pav, I really liked your reviews of the Spider-Woman runs.

    What did you think of these comics?

    What are you favorite untold tales? It is a great run.
    Sorry Mets just saw this.

    I am enjoying these issues. I never thought I would get out of my love of early Spiderman. But the later issues I am finding are just as fun but on a different level. I really loved Mr Negative and Charlie Cooper.

    For me on the Untold Tales the issue where Peters classmate dies while taking photos and he fights the Black Knight. He is telling the Story to the Human Torch. It was always my favorite of the series.
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  13. #1093
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Right now I am rereading Superior Spiderman and reading Avenging Spiderman. Making my march up to Modern Spiderman Slowly.
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  14. #1094
    Spectacular Member JTait's Avatar
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    I've been continuing my re-read of Brand New Day with the first two stories of 'The Gauntlet' mega-arc. I remember it being pretty disappointing on the whole, but I really enjoyed both Power to the People and Keemia's Castle. Power to the People is extremely derivative (how many Electro loses confidence and gets a power up arcs have there been?) but Azaceta's art is really good, in an off beat kind of way, and I felt like Waid crafted an enjoyable, surprisingly high stakes arc. I forgot how significant the ending (The DB gets destroyed and Dexter Bennett is crippled) was.

    Keemia's Castle is a really effective follow up too. The Sandman has become an extremely muddled villain over the years, but I think he works best as the conflicted villain with a heart of gold that he is portrayed as here. I can't think of many arcs since BND that have utilised Spidey's supporting cast as well as this two parter - the opening scene with Jonah and Robbie particularly stands out and is extremely well written. Rivera's artwork is superb too.

    These arcs, for me, show what a frustrating missed opportunity Brand New Day was. I did get the argument behind a team of rotating writers, but it clearly didn't work and should have been ditched far sooner. Imagine if Waid or van Lente had been given a solo run? Like I say, a real missed opportunity. This is a wider argument, but by the time Slott got the gig he was dangerously close to running out of steam.

    I've also been re-reading Spider-Girl (volume 1). I used to love the series, but it went badly off the rails by the end and I felt it got ridiculously overrated by virtue of the fact that it was consistently better than the core ASM series for years (and featured a married Peter and MJ).

    I've been pleasantly surprised so far. It really holds up. Oliffe's art is terrific and DeFalco's writing is great. He nails the classic Spider-Man feel, and manages to create a really well fleshed out world for Mayday in an incredibly short space of time. I forgot what a truly brilliant and original character she is, and Defalco also deserves credit for creating more interest and intrigue around her supporting cast than any ASM writer has done in years (possibly decades). 8-9 issues in I feel it's missing a standout villain, and I honestly can't remember if this ever changed. I do remember that the series started to go downhill when Defalco became overly reliant on classic Spider-Man characters and concepts like the Osborns and the Venom symbiote.

  15. #1095
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTait View Post
    I do remember that the series started to go downhill when Defalco became overly reliant on classic Spider-Man characters and concepts like the Osborns and the Venom symbiote.
    I think by the time the April saga began, the series was finding it's second wind. I loved the mind battle between the Parkers, Aunt May, and Norman, culminating in Benjy's powers activating and saving MJ on the bridge. That would have been the best spot to end the series on, but it went on a little longer, not that I complained, but there was precious little to tie up by that point and DeFalco kind of knew it.

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