Ask Kurt Busiek

[Marvell2100]

Can a thread like this be created a la DC Comics section?

This thread grew out of another thread from a previous CBR Community Forum.

All I can say is take a chance and see what happens.

[Wall-Crawler]

Whoever the writer wants to win, honest.

We rig the fights.

kdb

Seems fair haha.

If you don't mind, I'm going to ask you some match ups, it's totally fine if you don't want to answer them. Imagine Marvel approaches you and says "Hey Kurt, we have a new series in mind, there is no plot, you just gotta face Avengers against each other in a battle and write how you'd think that battle would go" They give you the mach ups and they are the following. (The match ups probably won't surprise you, since they are some of the most common fights people usually debate)

-Captain America vs Black Panther
-Iron Man vs Carol Danvers
-Thor vs Hulk
-Vision vs Wonder Man
-Wanda vs Carol Danvers (again)
-Spider Man vs Wolverine

[Wall-Crawler]

Anyway, I have an actual interesting question besides the above.

How was the process for choosing the writer for the JLA/Avengers crossover ?

[MRP]

Hey Kurt, long time since we interacted/corresponded in the old AML and Whack-a-mole days with Van and the gang, hope you have been well.

Couple of questions/comments...

I am a huge fan of your Conan run, I often say you captured the feel of Howard while the Marvel stuff evokes more of the deCamp/Carter feel, so it is my favorite take on Conan in comics, and Cary perfectly captured the feel and tone of a Frazetta inspired Conan. Your run ended early in Conan's career, so was there any Howard story in particular you regretted not getting to sink your teeth into in adapting it? Was there another Howard character you would have liked to take a crack at?

Speaking of your fantasy stuff-any more Autumnlands on the horizon? I know the industry is in flux right now and the magic 8 ball might be clouded, but do you have more stories in that milieu that you want to tell?

Also in the fantasy vein, I just want to say how much I adore A Wizard's Tale by you and David Wenzel. Any chance you might be looking at other OGN releases outside of Astro City?

As much as I love super-hero comics (and your super-hero stuff in particular) I love seeing a variety of genres in comics. You have explored a lot of genres outside super-heroes (sci-fi in things like Shock Rockets, historical fantasy in Arrowsmith, fantasy in the above mentioned works), but are there other genres you have a desire to explore or some other non-super-hero genres you would like to revisit? I realize the core market of the direct market is super-heroes, but it seems the growth market in the book trade is far more flexible with different genres and other avenues provide a different path to market than the direct market that seems fertile to be exploited by creators willing to work beyond traditional super-heroes.

-M

[Kurt Busiek]

Seems fair haha.

If you don't mind, I'm going to ask you some match ups, it's totally fine if you don't want to answer them. Imagine Marvel approaches you and says "Hey Kurt, we have a new series in mind, there is no plot, you just gotta face Avengers against each other in a battle and write how you'd think that battle would go" They give you the mach ups and they are the following. (The match ups probably won't surprise you, since they are some of the most common fights people usually debate)

-Captain America vs Black Panther
-Iron Man vs Carol Danvers
-Thor vs Hulk
-Vision vs Wonder Man
-Wanda vs Carol Danvers (again)
-Spider Man vs Wolverine

I say, "Sorry, I'm not interested in writing a series with no plot" and I'd do something else, something that involves plot and stories and drama.

I have, though, suggested to Marvel in the past that they do a series called MARVEL BEATDOWN or SMACKDOWN or something that was about superhero fights, and would have all the thrills and fun readers like about the idea of superheroes fighting each other. But I wouldn't be the best guy to write it, and I wouldn't think that there'd be no plot or no stories, because that would be boring.

So the writers would rig the fights, because that's what we do. It's part of why stories are interesting.

I think there's an essential disconnect between battleboard thinking and storytelling. Not that battleboard thinking can't be fun, for the people who enjoy it. But the essence of it is "Who do you think is most likely to win a fight," which often then gets translated into "This is who should win a fight." But that's not how stories work. Stories are often about the unlikely person winning through.

Storytelling simply isn't about the people most likely to win a fight winning. In a story of suspense and action, it's usually about the people most likely to win a fight losing.

Think about it: Who's the most likely to win the War of the Ring? Sauron is. That's why it feels like a big effort to struggle against that, and having the story wind up with two hobbits (one of them sick) and an extremely untrustworthy ally making their way into Sauron's stronghold is so dramatic and satisfying.

Who's the most likely to win, James Bond or Auric Goldfinger? Goldfinger. If Bond was the most likely to win, the story wouldn't be as suspenseful. Walkovers aren't entertaining.

Stories (well, superhero stories and similar adventure stories) are about a hero or heroes going up against powerful forces that seem like they're undefeatable, and then the hero or heroes figure out a way to win anyway, with great effort and danger and difficulty. David beats Goliath, not because he's likely to, but because he's inventive and plucky and doesn't give up. The story of the big strong guy beating up the little weak nerd is not a satisfying story; the story of the little weak nerd figuring out how to come out ahead of the big strong guy, though, that's the kind of thing we read this stuff for. To see the rag-tag group of rebels beat the Empire. To see the detective take on the powerful mobster and -- even though he's been suspended, so he doesn't have the police department behind him any more -- win through to exposing the truth.

Underdogs winning is what we like about these stories. If Daredevil goes up against the Kingpin and the Kingpin, with his mighty crime organization, has Daredevil framed, ruined and killed, that's not a great adventure story. If Daredevil survives and comes back, well, now we got something going on.

I'm a writer. I like stories. I don't care about handicapping imaginary fights to figure out who the likely winner is. I'm interested in rigging the fights to have them serve an interesting story.

So I think it's great that you're interested in questions like this, because they engage you as a fan. That's cool.

But I ran out of interest in that game years ago, so I don't want to play. I have zero interest in making a judgment about whether Thor or the Hulk is more likely to win in a fight, so that someone can then say, "Hey, Kurt Busiek says that X would win!" Such a fight won't happen out of the context of a story, and in the story, either one of them can win (or neither, even), because we rig the fights.

So I appreciate that you're interested, but I'm just not. This is the kind of fun discussion you should have with other people who actually are interested in it.

kdb

[Kurt Busiek]

Anyway, I have an actual interesting question besides the above.

How was the process for choosing the writer for the JLA/Avengers crossover ?

It worked out to be pretty simple.

Mark Waid was writing JLA and I was writing AVENGERS, so at first, the idea was that Mark and I would co-write it.

Then, by the time the deal was actually being made, Mark had signed an exclusive with CrossGen. He was finishing up his JLA run, but wasn't available for more.

So they gave it to me solo.

kdb

[Tien Long]

I say, "Sorry, I'm not interested in writing a series with no plot" and I'd do something else, something that involves plot and stories and drama.

I have, though, suggested to Marvel in the past that they do a series called MARVEL BEATDOWN or SMACKDOWN or something that was about superhero fights, and would have all the thrills and fun readers like about the idea of superheroes fighting each other. But I wouldn't be the best guy to write it, and I wouldn't think that there'd be no plot or no stories, because that would be boring.

So the writers would rig the fights, because that's what we do. It's part of why stories are interesting.

I think there's an essential disconnect between battleboard thinking and storytelling. Not that battleboard thinking can't be fun, for the people who enjoy it. But the essence of it is "Who do you think is most likely to win a fight," which often then gets translated into "This is who should win a fight." But that's not how stories work. Stories are often about the unlikely person winning through.

Storytelling simply isn't about the people most likely to win a fight winning. In a story of suspense and action, it's usually about the people most likely to win a fight losing.

Think about it: Who's the most likely to win the War of the Ring? Sauron is. That's why it feels like a big effort to struggle against that, and having the story wind up with two hobbits (one of them sick) and an extremely untrustworthy ally making their way into Sauron's stronghold is so dramatic and satisfying.

Who's the most likely to win, James Bond or Auric Goldfinger? Goldfinger. If Bond was the most likely to win, the story wouldn't be as suspenseful. Walkovers aren't entertaining.

Stories (well, superhero stories and similar adventure stories) are about a hero or heroes going up against powerful forces that seem like they're undefeatable, and then the hero or heroes figure out a way to win anyway, with great effort and danger and difficulty. David beats Goliath, not because he's likely to, but because he's inventive and plucky and doesn't give up. The story of the big strong guy beating up the little weak nerd is not a satisfying story; the story of the little weak nerd figuring out how to come out ahead of the big strong guy, though, that's the kind of thing we read this stuff for. To see the rag-tag group of rebels beat the Empire. To see the detective take on the powerful mobster and -- even though he's been suspended, so he doesn't have the police department behind him any more -- win through to exposing the truth.

Underdogs winning is what we like about these stories. If Daredevil goes up against the Kingpin and the Kingpin, with his mighty crime organization, has Daredevil framed, ruined and killed, that's not a great adventure story. If Daredevil survives and comes back, well, now we got something going on.

I'm a writer. I like stories. I don't care about handicapping imaginary fights to figure out who the likely winner is. I'm interested in rigging the fights to have them serve an interesting story.

So I think it's great that you're interested in questions like this, because they engage you as a fan. That's cool.

But I ran out of interest in that game years ago, so I don't want to play. I have zero interest in making a judgment about whether Thor or the Hulk is more likely to win in a fight, so that someone can then say, "Hey, Kurt Busiek says that X would win!" Such a fight won't happen out of the context of a story, and in the story, either one of them can win (or neither, even), because we rig the fights.

So I appreciate that you're interested, but I'm just not. This is the kind of fun discussion you should have with other people who actually are interested in it.

kdb

Thank you very much for this response, Mr. Busiek. It's very honest and insightful about what makes a good story. The seemingly weaker character somehow finding a way, that's always going to be the inspiration . Also, not settling the debate about who wins against whom, keeping it open-ended, there's a certain enjoyment in that for us fans.

[Wall-Crawler]

I say, "Sorry, I'm not interested in writing a series with no plot" and I'd do something else, something that involves plot and stories and drama.

I have, though, suggested to Marvel in the past that they do a series called MARVEL BEATDOWN or SMACKDOWN or something that was about superhero fights, and would have all the thrills and fun readers like about the idea of superheroes fighting each other. But I wouldn't be the best guy to write it, and I wouldn't think that there'd be no plot or no stories, because that would be boring.

So the writers would rig the fights, because that's what we do. It's part of why stories are interesting.

I think there's an essential disconnect between battleboard thinking and storytelling. Not that battleboard thinking can't be fun, for the people who enjoy it. But the essence of it is "Who do you think is most likely to win a fight," which often then gets translated into "This is who should win a fight." But that's not how stories work. Stories are often about the unlikely person winning through.

Storytelling simply isn't about the people most likely to win a fight winning. In a story of suspense and action, it's usually about the people most likely to win a fight losing.

Think about it: Who's the most likely to win the War of the Ring? Sauron is. That's why it feels like a big effort to struggle against that, and having the story wind up with two hobbits (one of them sick) and an extremely untrustworthy ally making their way into Sauron's stronghold is so dramatic and satisfying.

Who's the most likely to win, James Bond or Auric Goldfinger? Goldfinger. If Bond was the most likely to win, the story wouldn't be as suspenseful. Walkovers aren't entertaining.

Stories (well, superhero stories and similar adventure stories) are about a hero or heroes going up against powerful forces that seem like they're undefeatable, and then the hero or heroes figure out a way to win anyway, with great effort and danger and difficulty. David beats Goliath, not because he's likely to, but because he's inventive and plucky and doesn't give up. The story of the big strong guy beating up the little weak nerd is not a satisfying story; the story of the little weak nerd figuring out how to come out ahead of the big strong guy, though, that's the kind of thing we read this stuff for. To see the rag-tag group of rebels beat the Empire. To see the detective take on the powerful mobster and -- even though he's been suspended, so he doesn't have the police department behind him any more -- win through to exposing the truth.

Underdogs winning is what we like about these stories. If Daredevil goes up against the Kingpin and the Kingpin, with his mighty crime organization, has Daredevil framed, ruined and killed, that's not a great adventure story. If Daredevil survives and comes back, well, now we got something going on.

I'm a writer. I like stories. I don't care about handicapping imaginary fights to figure out who the likely winner is. I'm interested in rigging the fights to have them serve an interesting story.

So I think it's great that you're interested in questions like this, because they engage you as a fan. That's cool.

But I ran out of interest in that game years ago, so I don't want to play. I have zero interest in making a judgment about whether Thor or the Hulk is more likely to win in a fight, so that someone can then say, "Hey, Kurt Busiek says that X would win!" Such a fight won't happen out of the context of a story, and in the story, either one of them can win (or neither, even), because we rig the fights.

So I appreciate that you're interested, but I'm just not. This is the kind of fun discussion you should have with other people who actually are interested in it.

kdb

Very nice write-up, a far better answer than I expected, and I totally get it, thanks for taking the time to answer a real thoughtful reply Mr. Busiek.

[Wall-Crawler]

It worked out to be pretty simple.

Mark Waid was writing JLA and I was writing AVENGERS, so at first, the idea was that Mark and I would co-write it.

Then, by the time the deal was actually being made, Mark had signed an exclusive with CrossGen. He was finishing up his JLA run, but wasn't available for more.

So they gave it to me solo.

kdb

Huh, I thought it would have been way more complicated than that.

Did you ever talk to Mark Waid about possible ideas for the crossover ? Or did you guys never get to that stage of discussing the possibility of working together on the project ?

[Kurt Busiek]

I am a huge fan of your Conan run, I often say you captured the feel of Howard while the Marvel stuff evokes more of the deCamp/Carter feel, so it is my favorite take on Conan in comics, and Cary perfectly captured the feel and tone of a Frazetta inspired Conan.

Thanks. I tried to be as REH-esque as I could, and I'm glad it worked for you. I think it's probably fair to note that when Roy started the Marvel series, much of what he had available as hand reference was the deCamp/Carter version of Conan, with their edits of REH and their additions and expansions. When I first tried out Conan stories in prose, I read one of the paperbacks and it just didn't interest me (even though I like deCamp's writing elsewhere and think Carter is one of the great fantasy editors of his day). But when I dove into Roy's run of the comic, I liked it a lot. And that led me to seeking out the REH originals, which became available first in a British edition and later in pretty authoritative American editions. I loved those, and feel fortunate that I had those available when I wrote Conan, so I could tap into the original material in as pure a form as possible.

Your run ended early in Conan's career, so was there any Howard story in particular you regretted not getting to sink your teeth into in adapting it?

I kinda wanted to do all of it. But "The Scarlet Citadel" and "Hour of the Dragon" would have been stories I'd have been particularly happy to get to. Also "A Witch Shall Be Born" and "The People of the Black Circle."

Was there another Howard character you would have liked to take a crack at?

El Borak!

And I'd love to do an adaptation of "The Vultures of Wahpeton."

Plus, it would be fun to someday do the sequel that "Shadow of the Vulture" sets up but never got.

Speaking of your fantasy stuff-any more Autumnlands on the horizon? I know the industry is in flux right now and the magic 8 ball might be clouded, but do you have more stories in that milieu that you want to tell?

There's lots more AUTUMNLANDS I want to do -- we had to take a hiatus because I got sick and just couldn't get the scripts done in a timely fashion, but once I'm in better health (we're going in the right direction, but it's a process) we want to get back to it.

Also in the fantasy vein, I just want to say how much I adore A Wizard's Tale by you and David Wenzel. Any chance you might be looking at other OGN releases outside of Astro City?

Yes. I'm working on one right now, and have another I'd like to do when time allows.

As much as I love super-hero comics (and your super-hero stuff in particular) I love seeing a variety of genres in comics. You have explored a lot of genres outside super-heroes (sci-fi in things like Shock Rockets, historical fantasy in Arrowsmith, fantasy in the above mentioned works), but are there other genres you have a desire to explore or some other non-super-hero genres you would like to revisit? I realize the core market of the direct market is super-heroes, but it seems the growth market in the book trade is far more flexible with different genres and other avenues provide a different path to market than the direct market that seems fertile to be exploited by creators willing to work beyond traditional super-heroes.

There's lots of stuff I want to do. I have a bunch of projects I'd like to do that are urban fantasy (or mythic fiction, maybe), some SF, I really want to do a few straight-up romance stories at some point, and more. Carlos Pacheco and I are currently working on an ARROWSMITH sequel series, too.

kdb

[Kurt Busiek]

Did you ever talk to Mark Waid about possible ideas for the crossover ? Or did you guys never get to that stage of discussing the possibility of working together on the project ?

We never talked about specific story ideas, though we did talk about how it would be fun to have the crossover happen (or at least begin) in the JLA and AVENGERS series themselves.

In the end, Marvel and DC didn't want to do that, but since it took so long to get the series done that neither Mark nor I were writing those books when the crossover came out, that's probably a good thing.

kdb

[MRP]

Thanks for the replies. I remember those Wandering Star British editions, you turned me on to them when you mentioned them on the AML and it was the first and only time I placed an order through Amazon UK for here in the US to get them. The Del Rey editions were released here in the US soon after.

I am glad to hear you have stuff in process and that your health is doing better. I remember you mentioned your struggle with writing Astro City scripts (as opposed to Avengers scripts) during a health battle you had earlier as well. I'll keep an eye out for Arrowsmith announcements and other projects so I can make sure my lcs orders them. I know another AML alum who would be all over any romance stories you did as he is a big romance comic collector.

Have you ever considered doing a project for a platform like Panel Syndicate (what Marcos Martin and Brian Vaughan have used for a couple of projects, one current one later released as an OGN by Image)? I recall you having one story (or perhaps it was a reissue of an older story) on Mark Waid's Thrillbent platform (I believe it was a biogrpahical/slice of life story iirc), but while that is a similar concept for a platform, it was much more limited in scope.

-M

[Wall-Crawler]

We never talked about specific story ideas, though we did talk about how it would be fun to have the crossover happen (or at least begin) in the JLA and AVENGERS series themselves.

In the end, Marvel and DC didn't want to do that, but since it took so long to get the series done that neither Mark nor I were writing those books when the crossover came out, that's probably a good thing.

kdb

I see, thanks.

As for what you said to another user about wanting to do some straight-up romance comic books, please do, there are very few romance focused comics and we need way more of those, we have comic books for pretty much every genre yet for some reason pure romance is never one, some may have romance as a distraction or side plot at most, but they are never fully focused on it, and I'd love to see one that does.

[Kurt Busiek]

Have you ever considered doing a project for a platform like Panel Syndicate (what Marcos Martin and Brian Vaughan have used for a couple of projects, one current one later released as an OGN by Image)?

I've considered it, but I've been busy enough doing conventionally-published stuff that I haven't done more than just consider it. Brian and Marcos haven't merely used Panel Syndicate, by the way -- they _are_ Panel Syndicate, along with Muntsa Vicente. It's their site.

I recall you having one story (or perhaps it was a reissue of an older story) on Mark Waid's Thrillbent platform (I believe it was a biogrpahical/slice of life story iirc), but while that is a similar concept for a platform, it was much more limited in scope.

That was through Monkeybrain, as I recall.

kdb

[Intothevoid]

Mr. Busiek i have a question i have been discussing with a few friends i wonder if you could give your perspective on it. In regards to Bruce Banner and Hulk.

There has been some point of contention over the years whether or not Hulk has accidentally or intentionally killed people in his rampages. Where do you fall on the matter? Do you believe Hulk has accidentally or intentionally killed innocent people at some point and if the answer is yes, do you think that taints his character or diminishes it in some way? Do you think it makes Bruce Banner irredeemable?

Thank you.