SMWW Licensed T-Shirt : WTH DC!!!

[misslane]

I never said whether the shirt was or wasn't offensive. What I do find a little suspect is that DCWKA decides to attack one shirt (against a ship it has vehemently been against since day zero), and ignore four others that just happen to fall in line with a pairing it supports. It smells of a double standard and despite what you think it does undermine the legitimacy of the point being raised. You want to call someone on their bull****, fine, then call them on all of their bull, but let's not pretend this is anything other than the newest front in the SM/WW smear campaign DCWKA has been running for the past two years.

Unless you can prove that DCWKA knew about the other shirts and ignored them in favor of picking on this particular shirt, then it's you who is being blatantly biased. The only way DCWKA's point can be delegitimized is if the concerns she raised about the SM/WW shirt are off-base. Any claims about double standards also require that DCWKA evaluated both sets of shirts but only criticized the SM/WW one. All you have evidence of now is ignorance not hypocrisy, so any suspicions or criticisms of DCWKA from you or anyone else is pure bias talking. Send DCWKA links to the SM/LL shirts and see what happens. If nothing happens, then you can start making a case. Until then, deflecting attention from the SM/WW shirt by pointing the finger in a different direction is a weak and fallacious defense.

[Red_Phase_Eclipse]

Unless you can prove that DCWKA knew about the other shirts and ignored them in favor of picking on this particular shirt, then it's you who is being blatantly biased. The only way DCWKA's point can be delegitimized is if the concerns she raised about the SM/WW shirt are off-base. Any claims about double standards also require that DCWKA evaluated both sets of shirts but only criticized the SM/WW one. All you have evidence of now is ignorance not hypocrisy, so any suspicions or criticisms of DCWKA from you or anyone else is pure bias talking. Send DCWKA links to the SM/LL shirts and see what happens. If nothing happens, then you can start making a case. Until then, deflecting attention from the SM/WW shirt by pointing the finger in a different direction is a weak and fallacious defense.

My bias is not in question, at the end of the day I'm just some random person on the internet; one of thousands on this site and a single voice with negligible impact, sway or influence. This is not the case with DCWKA; we are not beholden to the same standards.

When you have a proportionately bigger audience and people look to you as an authority figure, you're not some person on an internet forum, you have certain responsibilities. It is not my (or anyone else's) responsibility to send links to DCWKA, it is up to the owner of the blog, (who is in a position of authority) to do her due research before posting an article. If she wants to run a story about the sexist/problematic line of DC shirts, fine then let's get the whole damn line of shirts up there and take them all to task. But that wasn't the case, it was an article that was targeted specifically at Wonder Woman that served the dual purpose(s) of bringing up a shirt that was offensive and taking some shots at SM/WW in the process.

That being said, you and I can debate the intent and the finer points of 'was it' or 'wasn't it' but at the end of the day it is irresponsible to run a story without doing proper research (especially when you're in a position of authority) and this isn't painstaking research we are talking about. This is what could be found with five-ten minutes and Google.
Trying to smokescreen behind the blanket of ignorance is no excuse, it's never an excuse. Especially in the age we live in.

[dcwomenkickingass]

My bias is not in question, at the end of the day I'm just some random person on the internet; one of thousands on this site and a single voice with negligible impact, sway or influence. This is not the case with DCWKA; we are not beholden to the same standards.

When you have a proportionately bigger audience and people look to you as an authority figure, you're not some person on an internet forum, you have certain responsibilities. It is not my (or anyone else's) responsibility to send links to DCWKA, it is up to the owner of the blog, (who is in a position of authority) to do her due research before posting an article. If she wants to run a story about the sexist/problematic line of DC shirts, fine then let's get the whole damn line of shirts up there and take them all to task. But that wasn't the case, it was an article that was targeted specifically at Wonder Woman that served the dual purpose(s) of bringing up a shirt that was offensive and taking some shots at SM/WW in the process.

That being said, you and I can debate the intent and the finer points of 'was it' or 'wasn't it' but at the end of the day it is irresponsible to run a story without doing proper research (especially when you're in a position of authority) and this isn't painstaking research we are talking about. This is what could be found with five-ten minutes and Google.
Trying to smokescreen behind the blanket of ignorance is no excuse, it's never an excuse. Especially in the age we live in.

My bias is not in question, at the end of the day I'm just some random person on the internet; one of thousands on this site and a single voice with negligible impact, sway or influence. This is not the case with DCWKA; we are not beholden to the same standards.

When you have a proportionately bigger audience and people look to you as an authority figure, you're not some person on an internet forum, you have certain responsibilities. It is not my (or anyone else's) responsibility to send links to DCWKA, it is up to the owner of the blog, (who is in a position of authority) to do her due research before posting an article. If she wants to run a story about the sexist/problematic line of DC shirts, fine then let's get the whole damn line of shirts up there and take them all to task. But that wasn't the case, it was an article that was targeted specifically at Wonder Woman that served the dual purpose(s) of bringing up a shirt that was offensive and taking some shots at SM/WW in the process.

That being said, you and I can debate the intent and the finer points of 'was it' or 'wasn't it' but at the end of the day it is irresponsible to run a story without doing proper research (especially when you're in a position of authority) and this isn't painstaking research we are talking about. This is what could be found with five-ten minutes and Google.
Trying to smokescreen behind the blanket of ignorance is no excuse, it's never an excuse. Especially in the age we live in.

LOL. Okay. BEWARE MY POWER.

Let's clarify a few things.

1) the shirt is licensed

2) The fact that a shirt exists that says "Pick-Up artist" does absolutely nothing to nulify this shirt. Why would it? Two shirts with uncomfortable images do not negate each other. Suggesting that my commentary is flawed because other problematic shirts exist and are not discussed is basically the derailing we see over and over again when ever problematic behavior/issues are discussed.

3) Throwing out the words "irresponsible" and ignorance at me seems rather, um, personal, no?

4) Not that the other shirt even matters, let's examine it for a minute. The pick-up artist is clever play on words and juxtoposes it with a picture ... wait for it ... with a Superman actually picking up a woman. A woman he actually "picks up" on panel iconically in comics and movies. Also it does not offer commentary or encouragement i.e. "Score! superman you big ole stud picking up the women." I might add the image isn't from the current age of comics but seems to harken from the more sexist and problematic Silver age. Lois while being carried by Superman has agency. She and Superman and smiling at each other.


5) Now let's take a look at the other shirt. The Superman/Wonder Woman shirt has no clever play on words. Score? Does IT again? How is that clever or funny? It offers commentary - "Superman Does IT again". It is an image from a current comic and thus has none of the "vintage" air of the other shirt. Superman is the "lead" position.

6) The combination of everything in #4 reduce Wonder Woman into a "prize" to be "scored" by Superman. She has no agency because of it. And that reflects the concerns of many, many people who read comics and like Wonder Woman. This is not about disliking the shipping of the two - it goes into the problematic nature of taking the most powerful female character in comics (even a feminist icon! despite the claims of certain creators) and turns her into a supporting character to Superman. You can discuss whether each and every line and page in the comics fulfill this concern but it is hard to argue this shirt doesn't do this (unless the discuss gets derailed into charges of "there are other shirts that are also problematic!!!! that you see being used here)

7) The shirt has stirred concerns in a number of people now that they have seen it. I may have a large following but I don't have that much power of persuasion to make people react a certain way. Perhaps, just maybe, the shirt is of concern and maybe not kill the messenger?

[Step]

What a gross shirt =/

My bias is not in question, at the end of the day I'm just some random person on the internet; one of thousands on this site and a single voice with negligible impact, sway or influence. This is not the case with DCWKA; we are not beholden to the same standards.

When you have a proportionately bigger audience and people look to you as an authority figure, you're not some person on an internet forum, you have certain responsibilities. It is not my (or anyone else's) responsibility to send links to DCWKA, it is up to the owner of the blog, (who is in a position of authority) to do her due research before posting an article. If she wants to run a story about the sexist/problematic line of DC shirts, fine then let's get the whole damn line of shirts up there and take them all to task. But that wasn't the case, it was an article that was targeted specifically at Wonder Woman that served the dual purpose(s) of bringing up a shirt that was offensive and taking some shots at SM/WW in the process.

That being said, you and I can debate the intent and the finer points of 'was it' or 'wasn't it' but at the end of the day it is irresponsible to run a story without doing proper research (especially when you're in a position of authority) and this isn't painstaking research we are talking about. This is what could be found with five-ten minutes and Google.
Trying to smokescreen behind the blanket of ignorance is no excuse, it's never an excuse. Especially in the age we live in.

She doesn't have to draw attention to every single piece of merchandise released with sexist connotation released to make an argument, we could probably play that game all day, this was the most recent one, this was the one she chose to focus on, pointing to other examples and saying "...well look at those other examples" or turning this into SM/WW vs SM/LL just detracts from the original point.

[Dr. Poison]

LOL. Okay. BEWARE MY POWER.

Let's clarify a few things.

1) the shirt is licensed

2) The fact that a shirt exists that says "Pick-Up artist" does absolutely nothing to nulify this shirt. Why would it? Two shirts with uncomfortable images do not negate each other. Suggesting that my commentary is flawed because other problematic shirts exist and are not discussed is basically the derailing we see over and over again when ever problematic behavior/issues are discussed.

3) Throwing out the words "irresponsible" and ignorance at me seems rather, um, personal, no?

4) Not that the other shirt even matters, let's examine it for a minute. The pick-up artist is clever play on words and juxtoposes it with a picture ... wait for it ... with a Superman actually picking up a woman. A woman he actually "picks up" on panel iconically in comics and movies. Also it does not offer commentary or encouragement i.e. "Score! superman you big ole stud picking up the women." I might add the image isn't from the current age of comics but seems to harken from the more sexist and problematic Silver age. Lois while being carried by Superman has agency. She and Superman and smiling at each other.


5) Now let's take a look at the other shirt. The Superman/Wonder Woman shirt has no clever play on words. Score? Does IT again? How is that clever or funny? It offers commentary - "Superman Does IT again". It is an image from a current comic and thus has none of the "vintage" air of the other shirt. Superman is the "lead" position.

6) The combination of everything in #4 reduce Wonder Woman into a "prize" to be "scored" by Superman. She has no agency because of it. And that reflects the concerns of many, many people who read comics and like Wonder Woman. This is not about disliking the shipping of the two - it goes into the problematic nature of taking the most powerful female character in comics (even a feminist icon! despite the claims of certain creators) and turns her into a supporting character to Superman. You can discuss whether each and every line and page in the comics fulfill this concern but it is hard to argue this shirt doesn't do this (unless the discuss gets derailed into charges of "there are other shirts that are also problematic!!!! that you see being used here)

7) The shirt has stirred concerns in a number of people now that they have seen it. I may have a large following but I don't have that much power of persuasion to make people react a certain way. Perhaps, just maybe, the shirt is of concern and maybe not kill the messenger?

Have you actually read Superman/Wonder Woman? Clark treats Diana with the utmost respect and dignity. Charles Soule has shown Diana to be quite capable and competent, defeating Zod, Faora, Non, and Mongul who are all typically Superman villains. The artwork by Tony Daniel has been very respectful to Diana as well. He doesn't draw her with a thong or her breasts barely covered by her top. Plus - as some of us have noted, "score" doesn't always equate to sex. Where the shirt says "Superman does it again!", I think that right there is proof that "score" doesn't mean sex. Superman has never been known to be promiscuous(at least not in-continuity). In the previous continuity, he had a long-standing, committed relationship with a great woman in Lois Lane. Now, in the New 52, he has another committed relationship with a great woman in Diana. Did you ever think that is what is meant by "Superman does it again!"?

I used to follow you and your blog for years up until about 6 months ago. Your blog used to be great at helping to champion diversity but now, when I see things like the discussion you're promoting about this T-shirt, makes me feel like igniting discord is a higher priority than promoting equality for everyone.

[Darius]

i don't see the word stud anywhere so your pulling this from thin air. all your doing assuming the worst case scenario instead of actually considering the context for which these two have been shown.



willful ignorance much? picking up girls is a phrase that has been refferenced in the media to death. show a guy the t shirt and most will immediatly get the play on words used here.

Go look up what the word "score" means within the context of the shirt. It's clearly meant to represent SM having had sex with WW. I actually would have no issue with this if they had left the "SM does it again" bit off. The context of that statement objectifies WW and implies SM is a "stud" for having multiple conquests.

[borntohula]

On the looks of it, it's a fairly unnecessary t-shirt that tries to be cheeky on the expense of Wondy.

And surely "scoring a woman" doesn't always equals sex (a guy or gal -that likes gals- isn't always lucky), the intention often (as in pretty much always.) is.

[Dr. Poison]

Go look up what the word "score" means within the context of the shirt. It's clearly meant to represent SM having had sex with WW. I actually would have no issue with this if they had left the "SM does it again" bit off. The context of that statement objectifies WW and implies SM is a "stud" for having multiple conquests.

Who are Superman's "multiple" conquests? In the New 52, we only know of him being with Wonder Woman(unless Lana Lang still counts?) and pre-Flashpoint there was Lana and Lois Lane. Having intimate encounters with 2 women tops doesn't really qualify a guy as "stud" material.

[Darius]

Who are Superman's "multiple" conquests? In the New 52, we only know of him being with Wonder Woman(unless Lana Lang still counts?) and pre-Flashpoint there was Lana and Lois Lane. Having intimate encounters with 2 women tops doesn't really qualify a guy as "stud" material.

Where did I say I believed him to be a stud? I said the short implies it with the statement ... Regardless of the actuality of the statement.

[Dr. Poison]

Where did I say I believed him to be a stud? I said the short implies it with the statement ... Regardless of the actuality of the statement.

I'm just saying, that in spite of what conclusion someone may draw from seeing this shirt, the facts are that Superman isn't a gigolo and from what I've read, has treated Diana with respect and dignity.

[Blacksun]

Where did I say I believed him to be a stud? I said the short implies it with the statement ... Regardless of the actuality of the statement.

it's not like we are analyzing the comics context, only the T-shirt context.

[Darius]

I'm just saying, that in spite of what conclusion someone may draw from seeing this shirt, the facts are that Superman isn't a gigolo and from what I've read, has treated Diana with respect and dignity.

I'm not arguing what's in the comics. But the t-shirt would give a non-reader a very different view. It may even suggest to a non-reader that SM is cheating on Lois with WW ... Most non-readers think of Lois as Clark's girlfriend.

[Stanlos]

Is this for real!! I can't see DC going for this!!

After DC/Time-Warner's rejection of the REFLECTIONS coffee table book while giving gleeful approval of the use of the license in a Playboy centerfold piece during the same period I no longer had any illusions about whether their ideas of what's best for the property were aligned with the original intent. I am not at all surprised.

[kidstandout]

I'm not arguing what's in the comics. But the t-shirt would give a non-reader a very different view. It may even suggest to a non-reader that SM is cheating on Lois with WW ... Most non-readers think of Lois as Clark's girlfriend.

that is on the non reader for assuming a t shirt is accurate of what it depicts, which is ignorant at best. the purpose of graphic tee's is not to educate on the topic it depicts

Go look up what the word "score" means within the context of the shirt. It's clearly meant to represent SM having had sex with WW. I actually would have no issue with this if they had left the "SM does it again" bit off. The context of that statement objectifies WW and implies SM is a "stud" for having multiple conquests.

again nowhere on the shirt does it say "superman is a stud". and when all it shows is superman about to kiss ww and the words "superman does it again", the only context that has any merit is exactly that. superman scores another kiss from ww, the end. assuming it's talking about sex conquests is on the fault of the reader's preconceptions, not the actual context of the shirt. when there is a shirt of them in bed with the same words, then we can talk

[Blacksun]

that is on the non reader for assuming a t shirt is accurate of what it depicts, which is ignorant at best. the purpose of graphic tee's is not to educate on the topic it depicts

again nowhere on the shirt does it say "superman is a stud". and when all it shows is superman about to kiss ww and the words "superman does it again", the only context that has any merit is exactly that. superman scores another kiss from ww, the end. assuming it's talking about sex conquests is on the fault of the reader's preconceptions, not the actual context of the shirt. when there is a shirt of them in bed with the same words, then we can talk

even if the marketing is not a actual reflection of the comics, it's still is problematic. My professo told me one time that benetton did a wall of male genital organs, of course it wasn't the reflection of the product but it was offensive on its own right.