World War Hulk vs Apocalypse

[Guy Smiley]

Because I think it's funny to mention it whenever people talk about space-tossing the Hulk, (I know the feat's SMvsFL, but its still funny) I went looking for a scan of the old comic where Hulk is thrown off a bridge and responds to this by flexing so hard he reverses direction in midair, but as usual couldn't find it.

Instead I found something else.

Hulk just does this, and Apocalypse/Namor just surrender out of sheer stupefaction.

(Also Dr. Strange is a damn liar.)

[Cyke]

Because I think it's funny to mention it whenever people talk about space-tossing the Hulk, (I know the feat's SMvsFL, but its still funny) I went looking for a scan of the old comic where Hulk is thrown off a bridge and responds to this by flexing so hard he reverses direction in midair, but as usual couldn't find it.

That's ridiculous, Hulk can't do that. You're thinking of Bill Brasky.

TO BILL BRASKY! *chugs beer*

[big_adventure]

Hulk generally isn't strong enough to one shot Namor, which is enough to ensure that Namor will probably get a single punch in, at which point Hulk has no real choicebut to hope he remembered to bring peanuts for his flight.

Heck, even if he was strong enough to oneshot Namor, that's just make it a 50/50 deal since he's not fast enough to blitz.

What's Namor's skill level, anyways? I mean, he doesn't need any at his strength level, but he seems the type to have some sort of royal Atlantean Martial Art, or at least took lessons with Wolverine in case he ever gets the opportunity to challenge Gamora or Mantis to a wrestling match.

Like most comic Strong People (tm), Namor's never really shown a ton of comic martial arts-type skill. Some of his backstory shows that he has had rather extensive training in Atlantean fighting arts - he both trained with and led a group of elite Atlantean soldiers, for example. I would say that alone gives him a likely skill edge on Hulk.

As far as Poccy getting around goes - he has been seen to both fly, and, as mentioned above, teleport, on any number of occasions.

[abmccray]

Hulk generally isn't strong enough to one shot Namor, which is enough to ensure that Namor will probably get a single punch in, at which point Hulk has no real choicebut to hope he remembered to bring peanuts for his flight.

Heck, even if he was strong enough to oneshot Namor, that's just make it a 50/50 deal since he's not fast enough to blitz.

What's Namor's skill level, anyways? I mean, he doesn't need any at his strength level, but he seems the type to have some sort of royal Atlantean Martial Art, or at least took lessons with Wolverine in case he ever gets the opportunity to challenge Gamora or Mantis to a wrestling match.

Comics don't -generally- work on auto-punch-you-into orbit principles unless the person catches them by surprise or is quite a bit stronger at the time. They seem to take an extended wind-up and the other person just taking it or previously being stunned in some manner when they do happen on similar level beings. I don't see one shot on a same-speed Hulk launching him like that, unless Namor stuns him first and then starts a wind-up. An average in-fight punch won't do it.

[Anarchist]

Apocalypse sometimes enters Superboy-Prime territories in terms of inconsistencies.
His highest showing (though surely not valid) was tanking a full-blown Scream from Black Bolt without any damage.

[nulbreaker]

Welcome to Rumbles. That's not really how it works here. I'd recommend reading the rules thread on the first page. We throw out situations of jobbing, and go by the character's high-end feats that are consistent with the presentation. Poccy is presented as team-wrecker with pretty amazing durability and effectively instant regen, plus solid telepathy and energy projection and some degree of super strength. Now, his feats are all over the place - that's certain - but, in a comic, he might get his ass kicked by Wolverine. Here, that's not going to happen.

Ok fine. If you want to compare high end feats Hulk has lifted a planet (Infinity 6), destroyed a UNIVERSE (Incredible Hulk 126), held open a black hole (Defenders 3) etc, etc. I've got all the scans and all the comics in their entirety if required. Hulk is half Sky Father level (Longshot Saves The Marvel Universe 2). So unless you've got anything to top that, Apocalypse should job to Hulk all day every day and twice on Sunday. The above example you gave was obviously PIS, unless of course Apocalypse has feats to match the ones I have listed.

[byc]

Apocalypse sometimes enters Superboy-Prime territories in terms of inconsistencies.
His highest showing (though surely not valid) was tanking a full-blown Scream from Black Bolt without any damage.

There's no way that's valid. He's been KOed by Archangel before.

[Anarchist]

@ nulbreaker
First of all, if Hulk is a universe-buster, does that mean he jobbed when he lost to people like Silver Surfer or Thanos?

Second, if you see him being a Universe-buster as valid, then how is he only *Half skyfather*?
Skyfathers are ruled to by Galaxy-busting level beings.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

There's no way that's valid. He's been KOed by Archangel before.

Especially since that'd mean Poccy would be beyond planet busting durability.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Ok fine. If you want to compare high end feats Hulk has lifted a planet (Infinity 6),

Before or after he got utterly trashed by Thanos and Proxima Midnight?

destroyed a UNIVERSE (Incredible Hulk 126),

Scans requested.

held open a black hole (Defenders 3) etc, etc. I've got all the scans and all the comics in their entirety if required.

Heh.

Hulk is half Sky Father level (Longshot Saves The Marvel Universe 2).

So if you're counting this as canon, than Deadpool Kills the Marvel Universe is also valid, which means Deadpool utterly trashes the Hulk, Galactus, and anyone else that tries to stop him. Cthulhu has always wanted this, in his Heart of Eldritch Hearts.

So unless you've got anything to top that, Apocalypse should job to Hulk all day every day and twice on Sunday. The above example you gave was obviously PIS, unless of course Apocalypse has feats to match the ones I have listed.

Read the rules, please. Three feats, and a statement mean jack s*@# hereabouts, when the board standard for power ruling is "consistent high-end". Given that the Hulk has been utterly crapped on by the likes of Zeus, and much, much weaker consistently without showing anywhere near the, heh, two sort-of feats, and a statement you've posted, in 50+ years of continuity... You're pretty much trying to tell us that the moon is actually made of cheese.

Which, you know, every one knows, is actually made of BBQ Spare Ribs.

[big_adventure]

Ok fine. If you want to compare high end feats Hulk has lifted a planet (Infinity 6), destroyed a UNIVERSE (Incredible Hulk 126), held open a black hole (Defenders 3) etc, etc. I've got all the scans and all the comics in their entirety if required. Hulk is half Sky Father level (Longshot Saves The Marvel Universe 2). So unless you've got anything to top that, Apocalypse should job to Hulk all day every day and twice on Sunday. The above example you gave was obviously PIS, unless of course Apocalypse has feats to match the ones I have listed.

It's been mentioned a couple of times already to you, but it's "high-end feats consistent with the character's presentation. That second part is just as important, if not more so, than the first.

If not, we'd have to consider Deathstroke as massively faster-than-light, due to him impaling Wally West on a sword and Wolverine a super-speedster by virtue of him KO'ing blitzing speedsters more than once, etc. Those are high-end, but they are not at all consistent with the character's long-term presentation.

Hulk doing those things is not consistent. Also, Hulk never lifted a planet in Infinity. I just re-read Infinity 6, and Hulk most certainly does not do any planet-lifting. He gets bitch-slapped by Thanos, and completely punked by Proxima Midnight and Corvus Glaive. Proxima spears him, and she goes into soliloquy about how her spear is made of a star, and now Hulk is stabbed by the weight of a star, but the thing totally lacks feats for having anything like the mass of a star. Captain America both deflects 2 of its prongs in the same issue, and gets stabbed by a third, and is standing at the end of things. So, "not a star" for the win, and absolutely no mention of a planet anywhere. Hyperion is the only Avenger with current planet-lifting/moving feats, and he's done it twice recently.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

It's been mentioned a couple of times already to you, but it's "high-end feats consistent with the character's presentation. That second part is just as important, if not more so, than the first.

If not, we'd have to consider Deathstroke as massively faster-than-light, due to him impaling Wally West on a sword and Wolverine a super-speedster by virtue of him KO'ing blitzing speedsters more than once, etc. Those are high-end, but they are not at all consistent with the character's long-term presentation.

Hulk doing those things is not consistent. Also, Hulk never lifted a planet in Infinity. I just re-read Infinity 6, and Hulk most certainly does not do any planet-lifting. He gets bitch-slapped by Thanos, and completely punked by Proxima Midnight and Corvus Glaive. Proxima spears him, and she goes into soliloquy about how her spear is made of a star, and now Hulk is stabbed by the weight of a star, but the thing totally lacks feats for having anything like the mass of a star. Captain America both deflects 2 of its prongs in the same issue, and gets stabbed by a third, and is standing at the end of things. So, "not a star" for the win, and absolutely no mention of a planet anywhere. Hyperion is the only Avenger with current planet-lifting/moving feats, and he's done it twice recently.

Also of note, those prongs are quite possibly FTL, given their ability to knock Spectrum out of a blitz.

[Anarchist]

Proxima Midnight, just like Black Dwarf, is written all over the place. And by the same writer I might add.

In the most recent New Avengers issue, Shuri faces her alone.

EDIT: Well, maybe all over the place is the wrong word, it's just that both jobbed to the Black Panther family^^

[Crimson Knight]

Are you talking about the Hulk, the Thing or someone else when you say 'the thing'?

To post three above mine.

[big_adventure]

Also of note, those prongs are quite possibly FTL, given their ability to knock Spectrum out of a blitz.

I'd put more on normal "ultra-speedy person jobbing" than "Proxima is FTL."

And everyone knows you never bring a low-end cosmic to a Panther fight.